[Tango-L] Abusing the available space (reply pt.2)

[Brian Dunn]

>>>
It really comes across as nothing more than rationalization to abuse the 
space, overuse ones fair share of the available space and blame any 
problems it causes on others (or perhaps just deny that it causes any).
<<<
You should really find the person who's saying all these things, and take it
up with them. ;) ;) I wrote pretty carefully to avoid specifically these
kinds of misunderstandings, but I guess it wasn't sufficient.  I'll try
harder next time.  By the way, how does one “overuse one’s fair share of the
available space”?  I thought the *definition* of my “fair share” was the
space in which I could exercise freedom without bothering others.  Did you
mean “exceed”?

At the milonga I describe, there were no signs of conflict between the
outer-ronda dancers and those on the inside who were not at that point in a
defined lane.  Those who wanted the density of the outer ronda got what they
wanted and preferred, given that the alternative was freely available to
them as well as to others. People's wants were clearly stated by their
choices, visible to all, for everyone to take into account in their
navigation, and alterable at any time, form one millisecond to the next.
That's where your glutton analogy breaks down, entertaining as it is - I may
use a space now for a half-second, then when I give it up, it's available
again - but in your analogy, the canapés are gone for good, aren't they?. 

>>>
What *I* see... 
"At most milongas (not just traditional ones), I see more vigorously 
moving dances (not just younger ones, but generally those less able to 
control their energy or direct it inwards) disregarding the available 
space because they felt constrained dancing in the ronda.
<<<<
I’m sure you’ve seen what you describe.  As others have pointed out many
times, rude and clueless people are everywhere, but it's of limited
usefulness to claim that they constitute a "style".  At the milongas I refer
to, I watched people using the space differently without conflict.  I didn't
say that conflict is impossible between dancers who use the space
differently.  Yes, there are unskilled dancers in all our tango lives - do
you think I'm defending their lack of skill? I'd have thought you'd have
perceived my "implication" that they should go to practicas to "get better".


I DID speculate that OTHERS might call something "nuevo", because, for
example, of a different way of using space. But that's for others to
clarify.  I guess you're saying that YOU are one of the people who would
make that association with what you call "nuevo", and I fully accept your
right to do so.  

>>>>
...But if I were a nuevo "campista" (whatever nuevo means ... different 
post), I would not appreciate "my" style being associated with bad or 
inconsiderate navigation skills.
<<<<
Then maybe YOU shouldn't make that association, so "they" won't be offended.
;) ;)  

But you raise an interesting topic - WHERE are the “nuevo” "campistas",
anyway? Why can they not be found leaping to their own defense on this list?
In these discussions, "nuevo" seems to be used only to characterize "other
people's dancing".  Once again, the dancers I am referring to as "good
high-level dancers" (and just to clarify, it is their heartbreakingly
memorable SOCIAL dancing I am talking about, even though many of them are
talented and compelling tango performers) do NOT tend to use "nuevo" to
describe what they are doing.

Doesn't it seem odd that this "argument" has only one side?  To me this
suggests an underlying conceptual confusion which creates a lot of heat
without shedding much light.  Some claim that “we all know what nuevo is” –
so there’s my question: since we “all know” what a nuevo dancer is, is there
ANYONE out there in Tango-L land willing to proudly state that they are a
dyed-in-the-wool “nuevo” dancer in the way that “everyone” hypothetically
“understands”?

>>>
Ironically, even though the "Ron vs. Brian" debates seem to put the two 
of them on opposite extremes of, well, something (still trying to figure out
what exactly :-))

<<<
I suggest that your perception of Ron and me as being on opposite extremes
of a vague undefined “something” derives from the fact that, to quote Mr.
Spock: “...it would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common
frame of reference.” From my perspective, Ron and I are still engaged in
establishing a common frame of reference. Once he and I establish THAT, we
may or may not find ourselves on “opposite extremes” of some issue.  I still
think the “mixed-mode” event idea might solve some of his difficulties as
I’ve come to understand them from his posts.

>>>>
 (Ron says so in so many words, Brian more subtly, and unintentionally, by
advocating and admiring a type of floorcraft that he associates with nuevo
that I would consider 
inconsiderate and hence bad floorcraft).
<<<<
Huh? Advocating and admiring a “type of floorcraft”? You mean “freely using
your share of available space without encroaching on anyone else’s space”?
Again, what’s inconsiderate about that? 

But I WILL humbly admit to being an admirer and advocate of good, high-level
tango dancing. I admire dancers whose musicality, connection, vocabulary,
and considerate spatial awareness leave me in awestruck gasps of artistic
appreciation as I watch them.  I love dancing with partners whose dynamic
range, flexibility, emotional availability, skill, training and talent
allows the two of us to maximize the expressive relationship potential of
our fleeting moments on the floor together.  When I'm with a dancer like
that, knowing what's possible with such a partner, sure, I want to fully
explore with her what's available in my share of the space without
encroaching on anyone else’s space.  And if that space decreases as the
Milonga gets more crowded (which did NOT happen in the Canning example I
described) and the "open middle" disappears, well, the principle still holds
in the now-smaller space, and we'll find tango happiness in a different way
in the more dense environment. And if that's when YOU show up, after putting
your excellent restaurant to bed, and you end up dancing next to us, maybe
you'll realize we may not be on such opposite extremes after all ;)

All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
www.danceoftheheart.com
"Building A Better World, One Tango at a Time"