[Tango-L] Ocho queens-bad leads-good leads

[Deby Novitz]

How can anyone ever attempt to resolve this thread on a computer list?  
Completely ridiculous.  This is an example of what drives me crazy about 
this list.  You can have both sides.  In classes when I teach, there are 
women who go into the cross whether they are led or not.  Why?  Because 
some teacher told them they always have to cross in the 8 count basic on 
what is it step 5?  No one ever taught the leaders how to lead a cross 
nor followers how to find the lead even if it is there.  So she just 
always crosses.  On the other side, there are leaders as mentioned above 
who do not know how to lead a cross, so the woman never crosses when the 
man wants her to because she doesn't know that is what he wants.  When 
we ask students what do you want to learn?  The men usually say "I need 
to learn to lead the cross."  The women usually say "I have problems 
following."  These are not beginning dancers.

I do not think it does anyone any good on this list to point fingers, 
blame, and insist that they are right.  Telling someone that the reason 
a woman wants to do infinite ochos is because they do not know how to 
lead is not fair.  You don't know that.  I agree, the ability to be a 
good follower is just as important as to be a good leader. AND...there 
is always that remote possibility that we are not as good a dancer as we 
think we are. 

I have found that women dancers develop much faster than male dancers.  
The women become impatient and do not want to spend more money on 
classes when they feel that the men don't dance all that well.  Men 
either drop out or continue to try and develop their skills.  Women need 
good leaders in order to develop into good followers.  How else are they 
supposed to learn?  So if you guys have all these wonderful leaders, why 
aren't the women picking up on this?  Why aren't they becoming more 
skilled?  Do the guys not want to dance with women who they think do not 
meet their criteria to dance with them?  Are the guys not as good as 
they think they are? 

I ask this out of my own experiences.  I started to learn to dance tango 
in the U.S.  I spent 4 years commuting to BA before moving here 
permanently.  I did not take millions of classes or private lessons.  I 
just danced.  Learning from partners, from milongueros.  My ability to 
become a good follower was from dancing with good leaders.  I remember 
in the first years that I came here having out of body experiences - 
knowing I had just executed something because of the lead, not because I 
knew how to do it.  At times I would remember myself thinking "so that 
is the lead for this." 

Obviously not everyone can come here.  Maybe a little less finger 
pointing will help.