[Tango-L] North American tango orchestras/bands

Thu May 24 00:45:52 EDT 2007

On Wed, 23 May 2007 15:09:55 -0400, "AJ Azure" <azure.music at verizon.net>
said:
> 
> > Disclaimer:
> > 
> > For what it's worth I am a DJ.  I started DJing in self defense,
> > because I hate dancing to any old random crap that gets sent out
> > of a speaker.
> 
> Not much since a DJ doesn't have a musical education and does not
> comprehend presenting nor arranging live music.

I can read sheet music.  I did junior high and high school 
choir.   I used to play tenor and study small group jazz.  
I'm not exactly ignorant about presenting and arranging music, 
though I was always a sideman and never more than an amateur.

> Isn't interesting that the least musically capable are the first 
> to step up to criticize and in no competent way? 

Let me turn that around:

Does a person need to be a senior politico, statesman or 
soldier to recognize the futility of what my country is 
trying in Iraq?  No, 2/3rds of all Americans are smarter 
(or dumber, according to your political convictions) than 
Mr. Wolfowitz.

Do women need advanced degrees in psychology, sexology or 
biology to judge whether certain men shouldn't be allowed 
to reproduce?  Absolutely not, they do it all the time.

So to hear you say I need to be a musician to decide whether 
some live tango band plays danceable music is just plain dumb.
I've heard good live tango, but none of it in the US.

> It's been said before and warrants being said again, if 
> you want live music to improve, help it don't slam it.

Tough love is not help? :)

Live tango is like mayonnaise: tasty but not really for
eating by itself.  Much better on a sandwich, and you can
make a sandwich without it.

Nice big tango communities with lots of excellent dance 
partners can happen without live music.  A live tango 
scene improves a community somewhat in certain circumstances,
but doesn't suffice to create a tango community by itself.

> The below post is pretty much rude and lacking in basic 
> conceptualization of what it takes to actually play live 
> music. Try it for a day then criticize.

So you want a little cheese with that whine?  It may indeed
be rude.  It may reflect total ignorance of what it takes to 
do live music.

It does reflect years of experience dancing to both recorded 
and live music, and lots and lots of feedback from dancers 
that I DJ for, both in what they tell me they like and what 
I see in their responses to what I play.  The snark factor 
just reflects years of disappointment with live tango.

It doesn't take a Ph.D. in musicology or dance to understand 
why some music works for dancing and other doesn't.

> Now if you want to make helpful suggestions, more power to 
> you but, save the prick-like commentary because, it doesn't 
> make musicians want to listen to you.

Musicians already don't want to listen, most seem to think 
you know it all.  Must be all that music education.

If I went to work and turned such a tin ear to my employer's 
needs, I'd get my ass kicked out onto the sidewalk in a hurry.
Deservedly so.

Take this as a wake up call.  I'm not the only guy spreading
this meme.

> Trust me on this a small community such as this needs 
> cultivating of live music 

But, we don't need live music to grow our tango communities 
as big as we want them.  Dancers shouldn't have to struggle 
to communicate our likes and dislikes on your terms.

The corollary is that if we can find room in our hearts 
for orchestras as diverse D'Arienzo, Di Sarli, Firpo and
Pugliese, we can surely find room for another of the same 
quality.  We have in the past.

> NOT free market system. The main reason is that there is 
> not enough in the way of resources nor musicians.

You mean you want charity?

Christopher

> _A
> > 
> > On Fri, 18 May 2007 19:46:41 -0500, "burak ozkosem"
> > <buraktango at gmail.com> said:
> > <snipped>
> >> 
> >> Hopefully the number of Tango bands will increase exponentially in
> >> near future via increasing supports from Tango organizers in their
> >> local communities.
> > 
> > Um, when they're as danceable as Golden Age music, sure.
> > 
> >> Some might get upset but I'd rather buy Tango Album of a musician
> >> who is alive, because these musicians will determine the future
> >> of Tango Music.
> > 
> > Unless they get their act together, there will be no future to
> > tango music.  I have yet to hear a tango group in the US that's
> > truly adequate for dancing the way Golden Age orchestras were.
> > 
> > At this point, the problems are manifold:
> > 
> > -- Adaptations of non-tango music that meander along and
> >    never seem to go anywhere, sort of a "Philip Glass
> >    Does Tango" effect.
> > -- lack of rhythmic drive (sorry, drum loops don't count)
> > -- use of rhythmic devices like breaks or submerging the
> >    beat, without giving a signal to the dancers that lets
> >    them pick up on what's coming.
> > -- Most of their music is waaaay too laid back, lacking
> >    even the signs that something intense may be going on
> >    under the surface.
> > 
> > Many are getting better, but none of them are on the same level
> > with the Golden Age stuff (yet).  Let me be more specific about
> > that: If they were magically transported back to BA in the 1940
> > compared to Golden Age formations, most of them would have to
> > fight for a chance to play in the corner cafe for _free_.
> > 
> >> Therefore, I would suggest instructors to create awareness
> >> about "fresh tango music" among their students.  Then dancers
> >> will start buying these albums, and they will start asking
> >> Djs if they can play some songs.
> > 
> > Some people will dance to anything.  That's OK the same way
> > the fact that some people will sleep with anyone is ... the
> > lack of standards/boundaries is permissible, but not all
> > that acceptable, and a big red flag indicating possible
> > brokenness some place.
> > 
> >> So, this would - hopefully - trigger Dj to look for new
> >> music choices addition to golden tunes that every dj play.
> >> Of course this chain reaction would create a new market
> >> for tango musicians who makes music for dancing as well.
> > 
> > I would suggest another route to getting, new danceable music,
> > instead of a welfare system ... the Free Market way.
> > 
> > Sit down and listen politely to live music.  When they ask you
> > why you aren't dancing to the nice music, tell them what's
> > missing in the music that causes you to stay in your seat.  If
> > a band's been around for a while and don't start moving in the
> > direction of danceability, stop going to their events.  When a
> > milonga promoter ask you why you didn't come to that last event
> > with the nice live band, tell the promoter, "Their music sucks
> > for dancing, and I go to a milonga to dance."  If their music
> > is actually good listening despite being bad for dancing, you
> > can add, "When is their next concert, by the way?"
> > 
> > Given an atmosphere where tango groups have to prove themselves
> > worthy of support, I would hope that a few musicians do become
> > successful and can show the rest how it's done. It's not nice,
> > it's terribly Darwinian, but I'm tired of musicians who don't
> > want feedback from dancers about what is and isn't danceable.
> > 
> > Christopher
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tango-L mailing list
> > Tango-L at mit.edu
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
> 
> 
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