[Tango-L] Women's role - what teacher is better for advanced ladies.

Fri Jul 27 18:17:51 EDT 2007

Hi Igor,

Here's some food for thought.

What Nina and Razorgirl talk about go beyond technical
skills.  It’s goes to what how the woman feels about
herself, as well.  Her confidence and self-esteem.  Her
belief that she is a partner in this dance.

In an earlier post, Jackie Wong mentioned that although
women advanced faster than men in the earlier stages of
learning tango, they have a much harder time advancing
later.  I believe that part of the reason is their lack of
confidence.  Women who work really hard at their tango also
work really hard at not anticipating, at waiting, at their
actually following and not just recognizing a step. 
Planted in that work is the fear of not being "right", of
anticipating, of not getting the lead.  So she’s bound to
have a lot of self-doubts, even with a good leader.  

>From her early days, she’ll be exposed to guys who will
teach her on the dance floor.  Even the good ones will lead
a step that may make her hesitate just a little.  And he’ll
repeat the step, she’ll feel a bit more confident this time
and do it correctly.  But it’s still a reminder that she’s
not the one in control.  She faltered.  She’s not the
perfect follower, yet.

Getting past these doubts, even with a lot of training, is
hard.  It finally takes saying "Well, here I am.  Take it
or leave it."   It takes a realization that it’s not about
trying to be like someone else or dancing like someone
else.  It’s realizing its okay to dance as oneself, even if
one is not the perfect follower. 

So how does a follower come to this realization.  How does
she decide to take a few risks and try to insert her style
into the dance?   How to become a strong feminine power? 
It takes a partner she can trust, someone who won’t laugh
at her or be mad that she interrupted his step.  She’s not
going to get it right at first.  It’s going to take time
and practice.  This realization, I think, is the difference
between high intermediate women and advanced women - to
dance without fear.

If you watch the pisa, you’ll get a sense of this as people
change partners.  People will dance differently with other
partners.  With some, they’ll feel secure and will become
playful.  With others, they dance "straight", only
listening and responding in body but not in spirit.  It's
not just music or steps they are conveying, but trust.

Trini de Pittsburgh

--- Igor Polk <ipolk at virtuar.com> wrote:

> Thank you Kathryn!
> 
>  
> 
> Yes, most of them are "undertaught".
> 
> To do all the things Razor Girl described, with the few
> exceptions which are
> exceptional ( and usually having  a great deal of
> experience in other
> dances, ballet, or ice skating ), it requires tremendous
> amount of
> dedication to training. She should be able to do things
> way beyond simple
> following and elementary technique, which are a must
> anyway.
> 
>  
> 
> It was discussed here before: too many women learned
> basics, then picked up
> something from average ( it means mediocre ) leaders
> stopped learning
> anything. While for the truly advanced dance they need to
> learn a lot.  It
> is difficult for them to advance. They are in this
> position because they are
> followers - it means they are at the mercy of men they
> are dancing and
> practicing with. While a man can choose what to do, what
> to practice, women
> usually can not do much ( remember, she is not on the
> level we consider to
> be high ). Some of them can not even imagine what is
> there - on high level.
> Men can. Some of them dance with genius ladies
> occasionally. They know what
> it is about.
> 
>  
> 
> Now, here is a question: Who is the best teacher to train
> women to be
> advanced?
> 
>  
> 
> The one dancing with whom a lady shows much higher level
> than usual. The one
> who is able to dance her beyond her imagination.
> 
>  
> 
> Igor Polk.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Kathryn Johns [mailto:tangoartist at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 19:31
> To: Igor Polk
> Cc: Ed Doyle; tango-l at mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Women's role
> 
>  
> 
> Does anyone realize or acknowledge
> how"undertaught"followers
> 
> tend to be? How would a lady with a great desire,and
> perhaps latent ability,
> 
> 
> to do the things you so beautifully describe and be the
> follower who can
> have 
> 
> fun herself and play with you leaders without spending
> oodles of time and 
> 
> money to travel to the few places advertising that
> followers are catered to 
> 
> and given ways,means and permission to be something more
> than a pawn in 
> 
> the game? 
> 
> If all that is available for instruction are
> males(yes,from Argentina
> too!),the 
> 
> attention is generally on the leader. Some otherwise good
> instructors either
> 
> 
> forget (?!)or don't know how to guide followers except to
> repeat ad nauseum
> 
> "keep your energy up"! And to make matters more
> difficult,disdain to dance
> in 
> 
> practica or milonga with less experienced followers
> unless they are young 
> 
> and/or pretty,then it doesn't matter if they can dance or
> walk and chew gum 
> 
> at the same time.
> 
> After the initial learning curve of giving up
> control,there is little to get
> excited 
> 
> about except the eternal hope of arriving someday to some
> cherished place
> 
> that you've seen in a movie or heard about from someone
> who has been there,
> 
> or if you still believe the fairy tale that tango is all
> about the
> woman...with respect
> 
> and to make her look her best.
> 
> You have to dance with(and learn from) a lot of frogs.
> 
> Maybe I am mad at men too.....but more with the system
> that accepts this.
> 
>  
> 
> Kathryn
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On 7/26/07, Igor Polk <ipolk at virtuar.com> wrote: 
> 
> Ed,
> 
> I never was in any doubt that she is a good dancer and
> has many friends. It
> shows.
> 
> I hope I will get a chance to dance with her.. 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what would you say about what I said: "A lady is
> never free to interpret
> the lead"  following with my explanation?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I am not against distracting of the lead in ladies
> interpretation of 
> the lead. Consider it as a puzzle.
> 
> 
> 
> Igor.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>  
> 
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