[Tango-L] Women¹s technique. A woman¹ s perspective.
ceverett@ceverett.com
ceverett at ceverett.com
Wed Jul 18 19:53:09 EDT 2007
What she said, is enough said.
Thank you, Robin.
On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:00:12 -0300, "Robin Tara" <rtara at maine.rr.com>
said:
> Oh, How? Hmmmm.
>
> Assuming you can already execute a perfect ocho and giro. Presuming you
> already have a passion for the music and you listen all the time.
> Presuming
> you have already studied with all the best within your reach. Presuming
> you
> already listen a lot, watch a lot and dance a lot. Presuming you are in
> control of your own body, it then becomes an elusive game of trying to
> find
> partners who can surprise you in the best of all possible ways. The goal
> is
> to be able to start a conversation with any of your partners without
> uttering a word.
>
> You put in your hours in classes, and in the milonga and practicas, as
> well.
> You take a few chances, dance with a few beginners, meet some folks who
> dance in another part of the world. You travel, you listen, you watch.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:49:37 -0500
> > To: Robin Tara <rtara at maine.rr.com>, Anna Zelenina <desdelasnubes at web.de>,
> > Tango-L <Tango-L at mit.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Women¹s technique. A woman¹ s perspective.
> >
> > I have no problem with that. How do you get there, that's the question.
> >
> > I say lots of quality practice.
> >
> > Other people, say, "no, it just sort of happens." That's like telling
> > kids that babies come from the cabbage patch.
> >
> > Christopher
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:32:56 -0300, "Robin Tara" <rtara at maine.rr.com>
> > said:
> >> The woman with technique can make an ocho to d¹Arienzo feel different
> >> than
> >> an ocho to diSarli. That¹s technique. It¹s not about whether she can
> >> execute
> >> ochos without touching the wall or putting weight on her partner. There
> >> are
> >> actually times when my partner can put weight on me and it works in the
> >> music, or the mood or the meaning. There are times when putting or
> >> withholding weight can communicate a lot more than executing a perfect
> >> ocho.
> >>
> >> This is how the dancers speak in the dance.
> >>
> >> The woman with technique can show her partner a nuance in the music he
> >> might
> >> never have noticed. And she can pick up on the messages he sends. What is
> >> he
> >> hearing and leading to? It's an Alice in Wonderland adventure for a woman
> >> with technique.
> >>
> >> Just a couple of thoughts to add to the mix,
> >>
> >> Robin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: <ceverett at ceverett.com>
> >>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:45:13 -0500
> >>> To: Anna Zelenina <desdelasnubes at web.de>, Tango-L <Tango-L at mit.edu>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] male experts on women's technique
> >>>
> >>> Piffle.
> >>>
> >>> There is no "women's technique" per se. There isn't a women's ocho and
> >>> a man's ocho, there isn't a man's cross distinct from a woman's cross,
> >>> there isn't a special man's molinete. There isn't a different way of
> >>> walking forward for the man that doesn't also exist for the woman.
> >>>
> >>> Intuition does not exist in a vacuum. It always builds on what you
> >>> already know. No one starts tango with such "natural skill of movement"
> >>> they can start the dance right off without learning anything ... we all
> >>> learn everything from scratch. If someone understands tango, then they
> >>> can communicate that understanding. If the communication is successful,
> >>> then the recipient comes away with something they didn't have before.
> >>> Sure, there are many teachers that have a poor intellectual framework
> >>> for communicating tango, even if they dance well. But tango instruction
> >>> follows the 90/10 rule just like every other field, so it follows some
> >>> people care really good at teaching.
> >>>
> >>> And what you learn, has to be practiced, over and over, tens of
> >>> thousands of times until it becomes part of your being, until it can
> >>> merge with the music coming through your heart. "Just dancing" is not
> >>> practice, it's just dancing. Practice involves doing the same thing
> >>> repeatedly with focused attention to train the body. In other words, it
> >>> requires the discipline of foregoing the joy of "just dancing" right
> >>> now, so there can be more joy in "just dancing" later, because better
> >>> dancing *is* better fun.
> >>>
> >>> Only the individual dancer can decide how much discipline they apply to
> >>> their dance. But there is no tango without discipline, because there
> >>> *is* somewhere a line you cross between not tango and tango, and to be
> >>> dancing tango, you need to be on the tango side of that line. And no
> >>> one knows all by their lonesome, if they are on the tango side of the
> >>> line.
> >>>
> >>> I've danced with hundreds of women. The ones that dance well, take
> >>> classes and private lessons and practice. The ones that can't hold up
> >>> their end of the dance, with bad habits, no skills, no posture, no
> >>> balance and needing constant care, attention and management just walking
> >>> down the line of dance, too often are the ones who only show up at
> >>> milongas and expect guys to teach them what they need to know there.
> >>> This isn't to say that there aren't many dancers beyond hope no matter
> >>> how much instruction they get; but they are fewer than most people
> >>> think.
> >>>
> >>> Christopher
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:03:07 +0200, "Anna Zelenina"
> >>> <desdelasnubes at web.de> said:
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear male experts,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm happy to read your valuable comments on women's technique that you
> >>>> so generously share with us.
> >>>> What would women do without male experts sharing their advanced level of
> >>>> technical knowledge?
> >>>> We would be left without technical instructions,
> >>>> without 135, 225, 270, 270 and 135 degrees.
> >>>> We would never know the hidden benefits of the wall.
> >>>> We would humbly sit for years without moving.
> >>>> Or, what might be even worse, we would have to start quilting if we would
> >>>> live in US or in the UK.
> >>>> We would be desperate.
> >>>> We would have no other choice than to relie on our intuition,
> >>>> trust the embrace and our sensitivity to feel the music ,
> >>>> use our natural skill of movement and humbly
> >>>> enjoy
> >>>> to g
> >>>> dancing ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> Anna
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >>>>> Von: keith at tangohk.com
> >>>>> Gesendet: 18.07.07 17:14:29
> >>>>> An: Tango-L at mit.edu
> >>>>> Betreff: Re: [Tango-L] Women's technique
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IL,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe you missed Chris' post last year. Chris has actualy attended classes
> >>>>> with more than 60 [yes, 60] different teachers. But he's never explained
> >>>>> why
> >>>>> he eventually decided they were worse-than-useless or why it took him so
> >>>>> long to come to that conclusion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Since his dislike of teachers has no logic, I tend to think it's envy -
> >>>>> after all, teachers are actually getting paid for what Chris would
> >>>>> obviously
> >>>>> be happy to do for free.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keith, HK
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed Jul 18 8:13 , Iron Logic sent:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> dear Chris UK, I think people don¹t understand you when you sayŠ.no
> >>>>>> technique, classes are badŠno groupŠ.lessonsŠ... May be you should I walk
> >>>>>> the talk and *show us* what is possible.. by *just dancing*.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> All we know is you:
> >>>>>> Learnt tango by 'just dancing' [without going to classes, without
> >>>>>> learning
> >>>>>> 'technique's etc..]
> >>>>>> Have had very bad experience with teachers
> >>>>>> Sincerely think that followers don¹t have to go to classes, they learn
> >>>>>> by
> >>>>>> dancing with 'good' dancers [like yourself?..perhaps]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just to get an idea of what you are talking about, will you be kind
> >>>>>> enough
> >>>>>> to post a video of yourself dancing, so the viewers can decide whether :
> >>>>>> 1) Continue to learn the way they do because they aren't impressed by
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>> 'dancing'
> >>>>>> OR ..2) Stop going classes because they like your dancing and want
> >>>>>> follow
> >>>>>> your example
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ofcourse you may pick a partner who has never been tango classes,
> >>>>>> technique classes etc. so you can demonstrate your now legendary leading
> >>>>>> skills.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Š.show them the way by dancing[ instead of talking about
> >>>>>> dancingŠapologies
> >>>>>> for borrowing your lines:)].
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> IL
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Chris, UK" tl2 at chrisjj.com> wrote: > I'd be out of business, if people
> >>>>>> learnt only this in half a year
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What refreshing honesty. Thanks, Aron.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Trini wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ...erector spinae, deep posterior muscles and semispinalis ...
> >>>>>>> When instructors from Argentina visit, we discuss things
> >>>>>>> like this all the time. And they get excited and pleased
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'll bet they do.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Which is why they like coming back here to teach.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And why they go home laughing all the way to the bank.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Tango-L mailing list
> >>>>>> Tango-L at mit.edu
> >>>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Tango-L mailing list
> >>>>>> Tango-L at mit.edu
> >>>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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