[Tango-L] Women ¹ s technique. A woman ¹ s perspective.
Robin Tara
rtara at maine.rr.com
Wed Jul 18 19:00:12 EDT 2007
Oh, How? Hmmmm.
Assuming you can already execute a perfect ocho and giro. Presuming you
already have a passion for the music and you listen all the time. Presuming
you have already studied with all the best within your reach. Presuming you
already listen a lot, watch a lot and dance a lot. Presuming you are in
control of your own body, it then becomes an elusive game of trying to find
partners who can surprise you in the best of all possible ways. The goal is
to be able to start a conversation with any of your partners without
uttering a word.
You put in your hours in classes, and in the milonga and practicas, as well.
You take a few chances, dance with a few beginners, meet some folks who
dance in another part of the world. You travel, you listen, you watch.
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:49:37 -0500
> To: Robin Tara <rtara at maine.rr.com>, Anna Zelenina <desdelasnubes at web.de>,
> Tango-L <Tango-L at mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: Women¹s technique. A woman¹ s perspective.
>
> I have no problem with that. How do you get there, that's the question.
>
> I say lots of quality practice.
>
> Other people, say, "no, it just sort of happens." That's like telling
> kids that babies come from the cabbage patch.
>
> Christopher
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:32:56 -0300, "Robin Tara" <rtara at maine.rr.com>
> said:
>> The woman with technique can make an ocho to d¹Arienzo feel different
>> than
>> an ocho to diSarli. That¹s technique. It¹s not about whether she can
>> execute
>> ochos without touching the wall or putting weight on her partner. There
>> are
>> actually times when my partner can put weight on me and it works in the
>> music, or the mood or the meaning. There are times when putting or
>> withholding weight can communicate a lot more than executing a perfect
>> ocho.
>>
>> This is how the dancers speak in the dance.
>>
>> The woman with technique can show her partner a nuance in the music he
>> might
>> never have noticed. And she can pick up on the messages he sends. What is
>> he
>> hearing and leading to? It's an Alice in Wonderland adventure for a woman
>> with technique.
>>
>> Just a couple of thoughts to add to the mix,
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: <ceverett at ceverett.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:45:13 -0500
>>> To: Anna Zelenina <desdelasnubes at web.de>, Tango-L <Tango-L at mit.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] male experts on women's technique
>>>
>>> Piffle.
>>>
>>> There is no "women's technique" per se. There isn't a women's ocho and
>>> a man's ocho, there isn't a man's cross distinct from a woman's cross,
>>> there isn't a special man's molinete. There isn't a different way of
>>> walking forward for the man that doesn't also exist for the woman.
>>>
>>> Intuition does not exist in a vacuum. It always builds on what you
>>> already know. No one starts tango with such "natural skill of movement"
>>> they can start the dance right off without learning anything ... we all
>>> learn everything from scratch. If someone understands tango, then they
>>> can communicate that understanding. If the communication is successful,
>>> then the recipient comes away with something they didn't have before.
>>> Sure, there are many teachers that have a poor intellectual framework
>>> for communicating tango, even if they dance well. But tango instruction
>>> follows the 90/10 rule just like every other field, so it follows some
>>> people care really good at teaching.
>>>
>>> And what you learn, has to be practiced, over and over, tens of
>>> thousands of times until it becomes part of your being, until it can
>>> merge with the music coming through your heart. "Just dancing" is not
>>> practice, it's just dancing. Practice involves doing the same thing
>>> repeatedly with focused attention to train the body. In other words, it
>>> requires the discipline of foregoing the joy of "just dancing" right
>>> now, so there can be more joy in "just dancing" later, because better
>>> dancing *is* better fun.
>>>
>>> Only the individual dancer can decide how much discipline they apply to
>>> their dance. But there is no tango without discipline, because there
>>> *is* somewhere a line you cross between not tango and tango, and to be
>>> dancing tango, you need to be on the tango side of that line. And no
>>> one knows all by their lonesome, if they are on the tango side of the
>>> line.
>>>
>>> I've danced with hundreds of women. The ones that dance well, take
>>> classes and private lessons and practice. The ones that can't hold up
>>> their end of the dance, with bad habits, no skills, no posture, no
>>> balance and needing constant care, attention and management just walking
>>> down the line of dance, too often are the ones who only show up at
>>> milongas and expect guys to teach them what they need to know there.
>>> This isn't to say that there aren't many dancers beyond hope no matter
>>> how much instruction they get; but they are fewer than most people
>>> think.
>>>
>>> Christopher
>>>
>>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:03:07 +0200, "Anna Zelenina"
>>> <desdelasnubes at web.de> said:
>>>>
>>>> Dear male experts,
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to read your valuable comments on women's technique that you
>>>> so generously share with us.
>>>> What would women do without male experts sharing their advanced level of
>>>> technical knowledge?
>>>> We would be left without technical instructions,
>>>> without 135, 225, 270, 270 and 135 degrees.
>>>> We would never know the hidden benefits of the wall.
>>>> We would humbly sit for years without moving.
>>>> Or, what might be even worse, we would have to start quilting if we would
>>>> live in US or in the UK.
>>>> We would be desperate.
>>>> We would have no other choice than to relie on our intuition,
>>>> trust the embrace and our sensitivity to feel the music ,
>>>> use our natural skill of movement and humbly
>>>> enjoy
>>>> to g
>>>> dancing ;)
>>>>
>>>> Anna
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>> Von: keith at tangohk.com
>>>>> Gesendet: 18.07.07 17:14:29
>>>>> An: Tango-L at mit.edu
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Tango-L] Women's technique
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IL,
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you missed Chris' post last year. Chris has actualy attended classes
>>>>> with more than 60 [yes, 60] different teachers. But he's never explained
>>>>> why
>>>>> he eventually decided they were worse-than-useless or why it took him so
>>>>> long to come to that conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since his dislike of teachers has no logic, I tend to think it's envy -
>>>>> after all, teachers are actually getting paid for what Chris would
>>>>> obviously
>>>>> be happy to do for free.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith, HK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed Jul 18 8:13 , Iron Logic sent:
>>>>>
>>>>>> dear Chris UK, I think people don¹t understand you when you sayŠ.no
>>>>>> technique, classes are badŠno groupŠ.lessonsŠ... May be you should I walk
>>>>>> the talk and *show us* what is possible.. by *just dancing*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All we know is you:
>>>>>> Learnt tango by 'just dancing' [without going to classes, without
>>>>>> learning
>>>>>> 'technique's etc..]
>>>>>> Have had very bad experience with teachers
>>>>>> Sincerely think that followers don¹t have to go to classes, they learn
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> dancing with 'good' dancers [like yourself?..perhaps]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to get an idea of what you are talking about, will you be kind
>>>>>> enough
>>>>>> to post a video of yourself dancing, so the viewers can decide whether :
>>>>>> 1) Continue to learn the way they do because they aren't impressed by
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> 'dancing'
>>>>>> OR ..2) Stop going classes because they like your dancing and want
>>>>>> follow
>>>>>> your example
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ofcourse you may pick a partner who has never been tango classes,
>>>>>> technique classes etc. so you can demonstrate your now legendary leading
>>>>>> skills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Š.show them the way by dancing[ instead of talking about
>>>>>> dancingŠapologies
>>>>>> for borrowing your lines:)].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris, UK" tl2 at chrisjj.com> wrote: > I'd be out of business, if people
>>>>>> learnt only this in half a year
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What refreshing honesty. Thanks, Aron.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trini wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...erector spinae, deep posterior muscles and semispinalis ...
>>>>>>> When instructors from Argentina visit, we discuss things
>>>>>>> like this all the time. And they get excited and pleased
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll bet they do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which is why they like coming back here to teach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And why they go home laughing all the way to the bank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Chris
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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