[Tango-L] How to Tango

[Floyd Baker]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:26:56 +0900, you wrote:

>It all depends on whether he is leading her with his arms or with his body.

I have covered some of that too...

>I read that page of yours, Floyd, and it sounds to me like it was written by
>a ballroom dancer. 

Hmmm....  Tango is the only dance I've ever done...    
Other than goofing around and ' wedding' stuff.., you know?     

My learning was not influenced by any other dance.. 

>When two people dance in a parallel system or in synchronicity rather than 
>purely based on lead and follow as in tango, what you say would apply.  

>But in tango, your description and criticism sounds like it is coming from 
>a ballroom dancer.

Hmmm again...   Not at all!  

I'm afraid I don't understand the comparison either.     

I don't have anything to say against ballroom.  I don't do any of it
but do see, and know, many people who enjoy it.   I just criticize
ballroom instructors for trying to teach AT their way.    

IOW, I do know something about ballroom *methods*...  My wife and I
signed up for 4 months immediately after I read the Natl. Geographic
magazine article.   Then found they were teaching us something else.
Head snaps, etc.   Not improv...   All memorization.    We hung around
until contract ended and split.    Then there was the year I spent
teaching the ballroom instructor AT.    A lot rubbed off during that
period, for sure.    Along with gaining other insight over time, one
comes to understand the differences.    

>I give you credit for admitting that you worked it out in your mind and
>actually have rather little practice and physical experience. (But still
>teach!)   

Why not...?   I don't buy into the Peter principal...  I 'teach' to
the level I am good at.  I hold workshops with good,  imported, AT
instructors for whatever is beyond my ability.   

My Tango education was different perhaps, but I have done constant
study over the years.   Working out loose ends presented by  various
instructors.   I danced when I could.  Took in workshops in nearby
cities.  The L's has been active on my computer for 12 years.  And so
on.    

I admit to not being an 'advanced' physical dancer...  My age is
probably the only factor against my getting to be one.    Especially
since I'm very happy doing what I'm doing now.   Promoting it for
others. Holding weekly dances and occasional workshops.  I dance very
well and I'm happy to improve as those around me improve.   I'll stay
ahead of them of course.  :-)

Actually physical ability doesn't enter into 'understanding' Tango
anyway.  That would be putting the cart before the horse.   

>It sort of follows the same principles as wind surfing: you may have
>it worked out in your mind but if you have not developed the dancer's
>muscles to go with it. 

That's where teaching myself to water ski comes in then... Because it
worked.    I could do it first time by just understanding it.    The
muscle part failed when I went to the extreme right away and tried to
do it on one leg only...   That was awhile ago of course.  Today I
would know better.  :-)   But it was the equivalent to trying to get
to the Tango  level of Montreal or Miami in one class...   Not going
to happen...  But I do know *how* to get there.  

>it would only work with someone you describe on your
>page: who knows her steps and needs very little lead.  

Sorry.  I guess it's a matter of semantics.  But I don't think what
you just said is even Tango.   At last as I read it.   There are no
steps for a follower to 'know', are there?    

>The steps be best agreed upon in advance.  That may be the 
>reason you don't enjoy dancing with women from other communities.

You're quite right.   But it's not I who want the steps agreed upon in
advance.   It's the followers.  And who's fault is that?   The
instructors who teach patterns instead of an ability to follow.  

Some followers do not know some of the patterns or moves that I do.
They do not follow the leads.   And it's their job to follow.   Not to
agree with the moves first, eh?   You know there is a lot said about
leaders needing to let the lady enjoy herself and to not 'teach'....
To accept it when they do not respond exactly as expected....  But
there is not much thought about, the other way around...  That the
followers should let the leaders lead in peace too.., and that the
follower should not always stop them to ask for demonstratons, on
something that is new to them..   Just do your best, eh?    :-)  

But 'new' moves tend to throw some follower, and they stop to ask to
see the entire move before they can do it.    Not bothering to simply
follow the lead.   Which is there btw.  Or they should just have
stopped and waited for one.    

As you say.., when dancing with them the steps are best agreed upon in
advance.    I have to learn what they can do...  :-<   

>Astrid

Anyway...  Enough of me...   I'm not important.   What is important is
whether what I have on the 'How To' pages is good..., or not.   What
should not be there...  How can it be made better?     

Many thanks for the thoughts Astrid.  

Floyd



>> >"As for the other extreme, heavy lead, there are followers who want to
>> >be pushed and leaders who push.  They go together..  They enjoy each
>> >other for their own personal  satisfaction.   But that way it only
>> >takes one to tango."
>> >
>> >I can dance with what you call "heavy lead". And I do enjoy it. You are
>> >very wrong that this way it is only takes one to tango.  I assume you 
>> >have no idea what it is about.   That is why you talking so much about it, 
>> >and used actually wrong term "heavy lead" which is has nothing to do 
>> >with this sort of dancing.
>>
>> Tell me if I'm wrong but I expect you see the frame as being held firm, 
>> with the follower closely enclosed  in it,  to the point she 'must' come 
>> with you?   Fine by me you know?   It's the 'frame',  and both can Tango.
>>
>> My very first time on water skis, with no snow experience either, I
>> had it all worked out in my head before ever getting into the water.
>> The feel of the strength of the rope pulling, the angles, the tilt
>> that the skis would need while still under water..   I went right up
>> and stayed up.  Only falling when I tried to ski on one leg only, or
>> when they boat put me ito a very forceful whip.    Both of them were
>> only a matter of not enough muscle.
>>
>> Eighteen months ago there was zero Tango in my area, so for most 
>>of the 12 years I've had little opportunity to actually physically dance 
>>Tango.., much less to 'branch out'.
>> Since then I've done a lot of improving in a more physical way.    But
>> I'll admit  the body still needs to catch up with the mind.
>>
>
>
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