[Tango-L] Transition of Tango Music

Tue Feb 27 09:23:23 EST 2007

AJ,

You wrote:

" Work with musicians to tell us you want but, 
also keep an open mind AND for goodness sakes 
stop the elitism, snobbery and judgmental 
attitude (not specific tot his e-mail just in 
general) it's seen in many circles and ultimately it poisons the environment".

And then in your next post, you wrote:

"Most often classical music is seen as stuffy, 
stuck up and 'dead'. If tango is put in the same 
box you can kiss it good bye. My thoughts on it any way."

This is some of the best snobbery that I have 
ever seen.  I have seen it before.  I do not see 
it as arrogance, just frustration covered up by 
snobbery.  In my observation, this snobbery 
against classical music usually comes from 
musicians who had failed as classical musicians 
and decided to cover up their embarrassment and 
frustration by "moving on to something more innovative".

Nothing personal, just pointing to the contradiction in the posts.

The question that comes up then is:

Is it possible that the same thing is happening 
with tango musicians as is happening with some 
dancers - those who cannot master the original 
form because of its complexity and challenge, 
decide to "innovate" it by simplifying it?

Best regards to all,

Nina

At 03:46 AM 2/27/2007, AJ Azure wrote:

>Consider this: there is nowhere for us to actually learn HOW TO compose the
>tango other than transcribing and that's always limited. So even if we want
>to write in the style it's very hard. I compose in the old style of
>1920s/30s jazz but, only because I have a modern jazz education. Tango info
>is ultra hard to come by. More education and you might find more people
>creating new material in an old style. Many classical composers still write
>in an old style but, embracing innovation is also crucial for survival of
>any art form and especially a musical one. I think that putting tango in the
>classical genre of thinking is the biggest nail on the coffin. It was a pop
>music of its' time and that's what it should be thought of. This will do
>more for its' longevity even if as a writer you can apply classical style
>thinking to it. Most often classical music is seen as stuffy, stuck up and
>'dead'. If tango is put in the same box you can kiss it good bye. My
>thoughts on it any way.
>
>-A
>
> > From: Gregory <gren at gren-music.com>
> > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 02:49:25 -0700
> > To: <tango-l at mit.edu>
> > Cc: TC Discuss List <tangocolorado at yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Transition of Tango Music
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> >
> > As a dedicated musician and dancer, I worry about the future of Tango  the
> > music and the dance.  This is why I first posted my thoughts on Tango as a
> > polyphonic form, comparable to Baroque music.
> >
> > Polyphonic music is not just counterpointed. It is the whole philosophy
> > of structure ,phrasing, chord progression, accentuation, voice-leading, the
> > placement of an adornment (³melisma²), the style of playing, etc.  I used
> > the term polyphonic because it was the 
> closest word I could find to describe
> > the style of Argentine tango.  Of course, not all tango has counterpointed
> > melody. By the way, not all of J.S. Bach¹s and Handel¹s compositions are
> > counterpointed, but when we think about baroque music and the polyphony, we
> > think about Bach and Handel.  Mozart composed amazing fugues, but for
> > musicians Mozart is a classical composer and not an example of polyphony.
> > The same is true for Beethoven, Shostakovich, Schnittke, Freidlin, Lerich,
> > and others.  The great romantic Felix Mendlessohn, during the Romantic Era,
> > composed preludes and fugues inspired by Bach¹s music.  One of my music
> > theory teachers said that if you hear music that sounds like Bach, but you
> > have a feeling it¹s not Bach  genius music 
> but different phrasing, harmony,
> > adornments, and so on - it¹s Mendlessohn.  Why?  Because it¹s not the
> > Baroque Era anymore.  The Baroque period expired with Bach and Handel.
> >
> > In music history, the style changes when it reaches its climax, the highest
> > level of the composition and performance.  After Bach and Handel, who could
> > do better?  Composers decided, ³we will never get to this level; let¹s do
> > something different.² And after a few decades of transition, the Classical
> > Period began.  By the way, the romantic and simple sounds of sonatas by
> > Domenico Scarlatti will always be an example 
> of counterpointed Baroque music
> > while the very complex sonatas by Mozart are an example of Classical, not
> > counterpointed music.
> >
> > In my personal vision, the period of Tango music is already gone.
> > Pugliese, with his orchestral arrangements, Salgan, Piazzolla with his
> > virtuoso bandoneon and the complexity of his works finished the century of
> > traditional Tango music.  Now it¹s in a transitional period.  Some may call
> > it a degradation of Tango music; I prefer think of it as transitional.
> >
> > Another question that is often raised  why can¹t anyone compose now like
> > these classic Tango composers (Piazzolla, Pugliese, etc.) did and why can¹t
> > Tango music maintain its integrity and its top-level of composition?
> >
> > I love to play Piazzolla and to dance to his music.  I asked one of the
> > most important contemporary composers and good friend of mine, Jan Freidlin
> > to contribute his talent to Tango music.  (I was the first guitarist to
> > perform his guitar compositions). I expected 
> something in Piazzolla¹s style.
> > He composed and dedicated to me his Tango suite.  The music is totally
> > different from traditional TANGO, or Piazzolla¹s music, and I think I know
> > why. Such a high-caliber composer is not interested in imitating any other
> > composer.  He wrote his own vision of the Tango style. I am going to use
> > this music in a new Tango show that is being produced in Denver. I respect
> > all efforts to keep this music alive by the creation of new compositions.
> >
> > I also like and respect the music of Libedinsky, Gotan, and other neo-tango
> > composers.  It¹s not so easy to come up with 
> something as interesting and as
> > genius as Piazzolla, Pugliese, Troilo, Corbian, Mores, etc.
> >
> > Just one more example of the connection between Baroque music and Tango
> > music and dancing - Baroque music leaves you some space to improvise and to
> > add adornments (³melismas,² in music).  When we dance to traditional Tango
> > music we interpret trills, mordent, gruppeto, forshlag, etc. as volcadas,
> > rock steps, lapices, etc.   Alternative and Neo Tangos do not have these
> > melismas in their structure.
> >
> > I hope this explanation satisfies the questions asked of me in this and
> > previous discussions.
> >
> > Best,
> > Gregory ³Grisha² Nisnevich
> >
> > www.gren-music.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tango-L mailing list
> > Tango-L at mit.edu
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>
>
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