[Tango-L] Ladies on web-sites

[astrid]

 Thanks for your answer Astrid,
> I always enjoy reading your mails.

thanks.
>
> I know the tango-scene is not more equal then the rest of
> the world. I just have to start where I am.
>
> Even if 'ladies first' is *galant* - only.
> It had a hidden value which I think could help.
> The feeling that it was okey to be a women.
> (I know this is simplified.)

Eva,
do we really need something like that to get the feeling that "it is ok to
be a woman"? I don't have any doubt about that in the first place.
>
> But it is no longer okey to be a woman.
> We have to be copies of men, and of course we can't be,
> we become bad copies of men, instead of
> having a value in our own right.
> I think that is what makes the disrespect growing.
> (it's so easy to forget that we can't value e.g. our
> jobs more importent then our children, ...)

I would say, the root of the problem is that many of us feel that we need
the respect of men to feel ok about being a woman. And in my opinion and
experience here and in some other places, the milongas can really be a place
to rub this in even further. Sometimes I don't even feel like going to tango
because most of the milongas here have a huge majority of women, a lot of
them beautiful women too, and a small number of men. Some of them very
attractive, and many, well, not so attractive. And there we are, sitting
there trying to share 8 men among 25 or more women, and having to deal with
some guys who won't dance with anyone less than, say, 20 years younger than
them or weighing more than 105 pounds or so (or taller than five feet,
because they are Japanese men). I have had days where I ended up in the
elevator late at night with three good looking women who were discussing
whether they should get bigger breasts (implants???) or wear shorter skirts
and loose some weight or add a few curves in other places, in order to get
more dances, and congratulating me on the many dances I got which surely
must be because my body is different from theirs or because my skirt was
very short that day (they were shocked when I told them that I had asked for
some of the dances I got). I felt sorry for them, and also bad about the
fact that such a misunderstanding about the purpose of a good dance could
even develop to such proportions (excuse the pun). I think, one of them
finally did get some milliliters of silicone filled in while in Buenos Aires
but it did not work because now she looks really droopey, if you know what I
mean. And gets less dances than before. So she has cut the slits in her
skirts a little higher but still...

I feel that taking up bellydance and getting out of there for a while is the
best thing that happened to me in a long time. Now the men love me more
because I have become am (even?) better dancer but I don't really care any
longer.
Being in a class of women only who are having fun together, developing at
their own pace as dancers and are not competing and fighting over a small
number of men who I mostly would not bother even looking at if I met them in
the street is so relaxing after all this !
>
> Despite all prejudices - for me tango is one of the
> most equal dances I have tried.
> Man and woman are equally importent.
> Follow or lead does not matter, both man and woman
> has to listen to each other's signals to make
> the dance really creative. It's give and take.

Yes. As long as both partners understand that.
>
> Tango has given me more equal value and self-esteem
> than anything else in life - I don't want to lose that.
> Here I have met truly equal men, who respect women.

I am meeting "truly equal men who respect women" in many other places, esp.
in the academic world, but sometimes the milongas really seem to bring out
the worst in some of them Yes, a lot of good things in others, but not all
men are the same. I still remember that dreadful evening in Berlin, years
ago, in a place where it was almost impossible to get dances if you did not
know anyone and came in without a partner. After sitting next to an
existentialist, slightly decadent looking man in his thirties on the same
sofa for about 45 minutes, I finally worked up the nerve to ask him to
dance. His haughty answer:"I have an appointment here with a Child-Madonna."
Well, great ! So much for my home town. (grin)

> I was just reflecting over how to make something as
> complicated as a pair-list in which it would be
> equally easy to find the women (when browsing) as the men.

Why don't you just add a search function or something and then anybody can
find no matter who they are looking for and it makes no difference where
they happen to be on that list?

By the way, last time Alicia Monti and Carlos Coppello were in Tokyo, at
different times, each of them had an about 30 years younger new partner. For
Coppello that made no difference but Alicia kept reminding people that she
is famous. which made me sad Anyway, they will never be the same without
each other.

Astrid,
 after a long day

think, I will hang out some more at the new "detox stone spa" tomorrow...