[Tango-L] He played her like a violin

Sat Dec 22 09:39:16 EST 2007

You know, I wrote a private note to Astrid because she deserved to hear from me.  I tried to clarify and I think she deserves that.  I made it a private letter, because I surely wasn't looking for any public acclaim in anything I said.  

  But, sometimes I read these posts with wonder about some of the comments.  

  Let's look at what Keith wrote:

  There are some things more important [than] Tango and one of them is how 
men think about and talk about women in general. 

  I agree 100%.  Seems he's on to something here.

  Referring to a woman as an object, even indirectly, is unacceptable. 

  100%?  Really? Not even an object of beauty?  Not even just for a moment?  Okay, I see that if a guy does this as a way of life, then, he's headed for problems.

  Think of her in that way and it's only a short step to treating her in the same way. 

  Everything is a short step to something!  Let's rewrite that so that it has more weight: "Think of her in that way, as a way of life, and it's only a short step to treating her in the same way."  Ah.  Okay, now we can agree.  Let's get back on track here ...

  If men do that while dancing Tango - shame on you. 

  Ooooooh!   A complete left turn.  Oh well.  Everything written before that sentence doesn't support it.  No relation.  No foundation.  Sorry!  

  I take that "shame on you" as directed right at me.  Hmmm.  My dance grew by leaps and bounds during those exercises.   Some women thank me.  So, I thought I would pass that fruitful exercise along.  

  Astrid didn't appreciate it.  I accept Astrid's point of view.  It's a real life situation for her.  

  I thought Carol's post, too, was insiteful.  I think of a woman as an object once in a while:  An object of beauty, a brush on the dance floor.  That isn't very often and it surely isn't a way of being for me!  So, I am okay with thinking like that, once in a while, to learn from it in tango.   But, I do hear that women have to deal with men who are way overboard to the point of not listening to them, being brutes, demanding that they follow, throwing them around, etc.  So, again, Astrid and Carol's posts are insiteful to me.

  But, Keith!  Written a little differently, I agree with everything ... until that last line just sits there, unrelated, and says shame on me, the original writer on this thread.  Did you really mean to slam me even when I state that I used it to learn?  I can see how my choice of words was a little off and offended some women.  I am sorry for that.  But, Keith, it doesn't make sense to get slammed when your whole argument doesn't even describe me!  

  Women who know me on the dance floor, know that I am kind, I listen during the dance, I most definitely hear the conversation that is going on, etc.  You, probably, could call me, and plenty of others, anti-brutes!  lol  I struck an emotion in Carol and Astrid that I can, and SHOULD, accept.  But, Keith, I have no clue why you wrote what you did.  

  Let's see. Along that same way of reasoning:

  Some people are malicious when they drive.
  Malicious drivers get upset when they drive.
  Malicious drivers show that they are upset when they drive.
  Some people die because of malicious drivers.  
  So, if I get upset, at home, shame on me.
  Got it!

Keith <keith at tangohk.com> wrote:
    I agree with Carol.

There are some things more important [than] Tango and one of them is how 
men think about and talk about women in general. 

  Referring to a woman as an object, even indirectly, is unacceptable. 

  Think of her in that way and it's only a short step to treating her in the same way. 

  If men do that while dancing Tango - shame on you. 

Keith, HK

On Sat Dec 22 3:04 , Carol Shepherd sent:

>Men may be from Mars, or they may be from The Planet Where They Can Be 
>Really Offensive and Still Get Lots of Dance Partners.
>
>We all have our way of saying things and thinking about things. For all 
>I know the dude I'm dancing with is mentally cutting me up into sirloins 
>like Hannibal Lecter. He could be thinking any number of other 
>disturbing and upsetting things that would offend my sensibilities if I 
>only knew. As long as I don't know, and it's not in my face, it can't 
>bother me.
>
>I certainly would go out of my way to avoid dancing with a man who 
>objectified women with florid platitudes like "I played so-and-so like a 
>violin" or "the follow is a brush with which I paint the canvas of the 
>floor." I've danced with lots of male dancers who talk like that about 
>themselves--yes, that's what they are doing, they are talking about 
>themselves. In my experience, they are also mainly dancing with 
>themselves. I just happen to be there for the duration of the song. 
>Not my definition of good social dancing.
>
>Whichever way one's sympathies may lie in this matter, I would observe 
>that this particular way of talking about tango does indeed seem to 
>upset lots of women, they do not like the idea that a women is an OBJECT 
>with which a man expresses himself artistically.
>
>So, depending on how full a leader's dance card is, it might be better 
>not to advertise this way of thinking and offend a lot of follows.
>
>Tango For Her wrote:
>> Damn! Well put! I think everyone's comments where stated well for their viewpoints. But, I have to say, THIS is poetic!
>> 
>> 
>> Jay Rabe jayrabe at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Men are from Mars. They speak a different language. 
>> 
>> When a man says, "He played her like a violin...," what he means is, "He expresses his musicality by leading her steps to accompany 
the music so harmoniously that her feet could be a part of the orchestra. He pauses to give her space to embellish at exactly those 
points in the musical score where such embellishments fit perfectly with the music, as if she were part of the orchestra." 
>> 
>> I dare say, it's highly likely that the woman who was dancing with the man so described would have reported a sublime experience of 
exquisite musicality.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>Carol Ruth Shepherd
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