[Tango-L] Tango-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 28
Sean
milos-gloriosus at comcast.net
Tue Oct 31 18:01:32 EST 2006
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: where to tango in Vietnam (andrea le)
2. Re: Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles.
(El Mundo del Tango)
3. Re: Tango Fire in Cleveland (El Mundo del Tango)
4. Re: Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles. (astrid)
5. Re: where to tango in Vietnam (Tuan)
6. Re: Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles.
(Jacob Eggers)
7. Re: Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles.
(Nina Pesochinsky)
8. Re: Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles.
(tangosmith at cox.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:01:44 -0800 (PST)
From: andrea le <phamtango at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] where to tango in Vietnam
To: tango-l at mit.edu
Message-ID: <20061030230144.58985.qmail at web60222.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Ann-
In Spring 2004 I spent one month in Vietnam (Saigon,
Hanoi, Danang, Hue...all major cities). I searched for
places to dance (through ballroom dance teachers
there, who are friends of my local friends). Argentine
Tango still did not exist at that time.
If you are lucky to find some 'milonga', or even just
some place that sneaks in some Argentine tango music,
please let me know (be careful, some insisted to me
that they dance tango, but when they took me to the
floor to 'dance', it was ballroom - It seems 'tango'
is 'tango', so why one asks for 'another' tango? ;-)
Andrea
>
> I shall be in Hanoi and Saigon for two weeks and was
> wondering if anyone
> knew where it might be possible to dance.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Ann
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:40:12 -0800
From: "El Mundo del Tango" <mail at elmundodeltango.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace
styles.
To: "AJ Azure" <azure.music at verizon.net>, <TANGO-L at MIT.EDU>
Message-ID: <006001c6fc8d$81ccf8c0$6401a8c0 at Office>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Nonsense. "Valid" may be to dance.
But to call it "milonguero style" implies that that is what milongueros
dance and that is a big fat lie, in Buenos Aires and everywhere else,
now
and fifty years ago. Milongueros dance all differently and they are all
milongueros because milonguero is a social dancer. Shoin.Basta.Se acab?.
These semantic dirty tricks are abused and these myths are
perpetuated by
limited, mediocre "one trick ponies"
who wish to drag everybody else into the same mediocrity and to point to
themselves as the "authentic, real thing", while dismissing
everything else.
Gabriel
----- Original Message -----
From: "AJ Azure" <azure.music at verizon.net>
To: <TANGO-L at mit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles.
>
> I'm not a dancer but, as a musician I can tell you that when something
> gets
> pulled out of its' country or circle of origin it gets labeled and
> categorized where it would not be in its' home environment.
> Sometimes it's
> great because it helps to understand it. Other times it's over
> complicating
> it and over categorizing.
>
> _Adriel
>
>> From: Igor Polk <ipolk at virtuar.com>
>> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:45:05 -0800
>> To: <TANGO-L at mit.edu>
>> Subject: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles.
>>
>> I agree Nina with you that there is no Milonguero style per se as
>> common
>> knowledge of tango in Buenos Aires, however people in US who dance
>> Milonguero style dance in a certain way and they call it
>> Milonguero style
>> and that is absolutely valid no matter how you call it.
>>
>> There are several close embrace styles no matter what people in BA
>> say
>> about
>> it. And Milonguero ( just a name, not an Argentinean name, but
>> never the
>> less it is a name ) exists and it is one of the close embrace
>> style. Only
>> one of them.
>>
>> Do you want to say that there are no dancing styles?
>> Hm... At least every real great dancer has his own.
>>
>> Igor Polk.
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:25:48 -0800
From: "El Mundo del Tango" <mail at elmundodeltango.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Fire in Cleveland
To: <TANGO-L at mit.edu>, "Nina Pesochinsky" <nina at earthnet.net>
Message-ID: <005301c6fc8b$7ec2b0e0$6401a8c0 at Office>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
YESSSSSS..........BRAVO NINAAA!!!!!...BRAVOOOOO!!!
IT WAS ABOUT TIME SOMEONE SAID IT!!!
Gabriel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Pesochinsky" <nina at earthnet.net>
To: <TANGO-L at mit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Fire in Cleveland
> Hello, everyone,
>
> Discussions where I hear "close embrace", "Milonguero style", etc.,
> make me indignant. Do people not realize that these things do not
> exist?! Who are the people perpetuating these myths?!
>
> When I lived in BsAs, I made it my business to find out about these
> terms. I asked different dancers with 60+ years of non-stop dance
> experience what is a "milonguero" style. Most of them said they did
> not know. One said, "I am a milonguero, so it must be the style that
> I dance." All of these dancers had very different styles,
> technique, etc.
>
> People who are skilled dancers have only one embrace. Those who have
> no skills have to give name to their limitations.
>
> Please continue with your discussion!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nina
>
>
> At 12:17 PM 10/29/2006, you wrote:
>> Sorry about my English. Subtleties, subtleties, it is everything..
>>
>> Now here is a thesis for the another discussion:
>> "Those who originated the "Milonguero Style" name are among those
>> who did
>> not make it TO THE stage."
>> Is it true or false?
>>
>> Igor.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tango-L mailing list
>> Tango-L at mit.edu
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 11:56:03 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid at ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace
styles.
To: <TANGO-L at MIT.EDU>
Message-ID: <003201c6fc98$1a6fc940$a443fea9 at soteccomputer>
These semantic dirty tricks are abused and these myths are
perpetuated by
limited, mediocre "one trick ponies"
who wish to drag everybody else into the same mediocrity and to point to
themselves as the "authentic, real thing", while dismissing
everything else.
Gabriel
------------------------------------
A list-friend and I used to have this collection of tango videos we
would
forward to each other, under the title "Videos zum Meckern".
I just watched Gabriel's. ; )
http://www.elmundodeltango.com/movies/10anniversary/10anniversary.html
Astrid
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 22:19:20 -0500
From: "Tuan" <tuan35 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] where to tango in Vietnam
To: "'andrea le'" <phamtango at yahoo.com>, <tango-l at mit.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c6fc9b$5b27e730$6401a8c0 at Tuandell>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Ann,
I don't think you'll have much luck finding Argentine Tango in Viet-Nam.
Most Vietnameses love all the ballroom dances (Cha Cha Cha, Paso Doble,
Rumba, Tango, etc.) but what you actually see on the dance floor are
very odd versions of those dance forms. Like Andrea said, it's closer to
ballroom, but it's imported from France a long time ago, and it has been
watered down even more since then.
But I hope I'm wrong.
Good luck,
Tuan
-----Original Message-----
From: tango-l-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf
Of andrea le
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 6:02 PM
To: tango-l at mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] where to tango in Vietnam
Hi Ann-
In Spring 2004 I spent one month in Vietnam (Saigon,
Hanoi, Danang, Hue...all major cities). I searched for
places to dance (through ballroom dance teachers
there, who are friends of my local friends). Argentine
Tango still did not exist at that time.
If you are lucky to find some 'milonga', or even just
some place that sneaks in some Argentine tango music,
please let me know (be careful, some insisted to me
that they dance tango, but when they took me to the
floor to 'dance', it was ballroom - It seems 'tango'
is 'tango', so why one asks for 'another' tango? ;-)
Andrea
>
> I shall be in Hanoi and Saigon for two weeks and was wondering if
> anyone knew where it might be possible to dance.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Ann
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
__________________
Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get
things done faster.
(http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)
_______________________________________________
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L at mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 01:08:35 -0400
From: "Jacob Eggers" <eggers at brandeis.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace
styles.
To: TANGO-L at mit.edu
Message-ID:
<dfa4cf020610302108v313a1a34q95478ab76ef0391c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It's helpful to know that they don't use the term milonguero in BA
like it's
used in the US. So, what is the terminology used to elucidate the
difference
between Ricardo Vidort and Julio Balamaceda? (see their videos on
tangovideoproject)
j
On 10/30/06, astrid <astrid at ruby.plala.or.jp> wrote:
>
> These semantic dirty tricks are abused and these myths are
> perpetuated by
> limited, mediocre "one trick ponies"
> who wish to drag everybody else into the same mediocrity and to
> point to
> themselves as the "authentic, real thing", while dismissing everything
> else.
>
> Gabriel
> ------------------------------------
> A list-friend and I used to have this collection of tango videos we
> would
> forward to each other, under the title "Videos zum Meckern".
> I just watched Gabriel's. ; )
>
> http://www.elmundodeltango.com/movies/10anniversary/10anniversary.html
>
> Astrid
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 01:28:47 -0700
From: Nina Pesochinsky <nina at earthnet.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace
styles.
To: TANGO-L at MIT.EDU
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061031011551.01a3a658 at earthnet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Ricardo Vidort was an awesome social dancer. He danced with finesse
and sensitivity rarely seen anymore on a social dance floor.
What you see Julio Balmaceda and Corina de al Rosa dance in a video
is their creative work in their own technique that has been developed
over the last 10 years. It is dynamic and it is about creative
movement that is unique to their own style. They are speaking to the
people who are watching. If you see them dance at a milonga
socially, with each other or with other people, you will see
completely different dancing. You will never see either one of them
dance on a social dance floor as they dance in a performance.
What professional dancers have that social dancers tend not to have
is versatility. Professional dancers are technically skilled to
dance in whatever style is called for, depending on the music, the
partner and the moment. Professional dancers are dancers who are
constantly refining and developing their technique and
artistry. Most of the best professional dancers in tango came from
being fabulous social dancers and they took the development of their
dance much further than social dance requires.
In order to give honor to the dancing of both Ricardo Vidort and
Julio Balmaceda, it is important to make this distinction.
Best regards to everyone,
Nina
At 10:08 PM 10/30/2006, you wrote:
> It's helpful to know that they don't use the term milonguero in BA
> like it's
> used in the US. So, what is the terminology used to elucidate the
> difference
> between Ricardo Vidort and Julio Balamaceda? (see their videos on
> tangovideoproject)
>
> j
>
> On 10/30/06, astrid <astrid at ruby.plala.or.jp> wrote:
>>
>> These semantic dirty tricks are abused and these myths are
>> perpetuated by
>> limited, mediocre "one trick ponies"
>> who wish to drag everybody else into the same mediocrity and to
>> point to
>> themselves as the "authentic, real thing", while dismissing
>> everything
>> else.
>>
>> Gabriel
>> ------------------------------------
>> A list-friend and I used to have this collection of tango videos
>> we would
>> forward to each other, under the title "Videos zum Meckern".
>> I just watched Gabriel's. ; )
>>
>> http://www.elmundodeltango.com/movies/10anniversary/
>> 10anniversary.html
>>
>> Astrid
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tango-L mailing list
>> Tango-L at mit.edu
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:23:45 -0500
From: "tangosmith at cox.net" <tangosmith at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace
styles.
To: nina at earthnet.net, tango-l at mit.edu
Message-ID: <380-2200610231152345297 at M2W041.mail2web.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Nina,
Your comments on the difference between social and professional dance
were
refreshing. They apply not only to tango, but to all other forms
that are
danced both socially and professionally, such as ballroom. They are
danced
for different purposes and therefore it is altogether appropriate
that they
be danced differently in style. This doesn?t mean that one style is
intrinsically any better or worse than the other.
There are some who prefer to define tango very narrowly. And for them,
their vision of their personal tango may in fact be narrow in style.
But
the world in general defines tango broadly (disregarding definitions
used
in competitions, which vary themselves). We need to be able to view
each
dancer?s style within the context and purpose of the dance as well as
the
artistic choice of the dancer and not according to a limited and
often very
personal definition.
Because we may personally love to dance our own intimate social tango
doesn?t have to impinge on our ability to enjoy and appreciate
performance
tango or any other style beyond or in between.
WBSmith
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Nina Pesochinsky nina at earthnet.net
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 01:28:47 -0700
To: TANGO-L at MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero is one style of close embrace styles.
Ricardo Vidort was an awesome social dancer. He danced with finesse
and sensitivity rarely seen anymore on a social dance floor.
What you see Julio Balmaceda and Corina de al Rosa dance in a video
is their creative work in their own technique that has been developed
over the last 10 years. It is dynamic and it is about creative
movement that is unique to their own style. They are speaking to the
people who are watching. If you see them dance at a milonga
socially, with each other or with other people, you will see
completely different dancing. You will never see either one of them
dance on a social dance floor as they dance in a performance.
What professional dancers have that social dancers tend not to have
is versatility. Professional dancers are technically skilled to
dance in whatever style is called for, depending on the music, the
partner and the moment. Professional dancers are dancers who are
constantly refining and developing their technique and
artistry. Most of the best professional dancers in tango came from
being fabulous social dancers and they took the development of their
dance much further than social dance requires.
In order to give honor to the dancing of both Ricardo Vidort and
Julio Balmaceda, it is important to make this distinction.
Best regards to everyone,
Nina
At 10:08 PM 10/30/2006, you wrote:
> It's helpful to know that they don't use the term milonguero in BA
> like
it's
> used in the US. So, what is the terminology used to elucidate the
difference
> between Ricardo Vidort and Julio Balamaceda? (see their videos on
> tangovideoproject)
>
> j
>
> On 10/30/06, astrid <astrid at ruby.plala.or.jp> wrote:
>>
>> These semantic dirty tricks are abused and these myths are
>> perpetuated
by
>> limited, mediocre "one trick ponies"
>> who wish to drag everybody else into the same mediocrity and to
>> point to
>> themselves as the "authentic, real thing", while dismissing
>> everything
>> else.
>>
>> Gabriel
>> ------------------------------------
>> A list-friend and I used to have this collection of tango videos we
would
>> forward to each other, under the title "Videos zum Meckern".
>> I just watched Gabriel's. ; )
>>
>> http://www.elmundodeltango.com/movies/10anniversary/
>> 10anniversary.html
>>
>> Astrid
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tango-L mailing list
>> Tango-L at mit.edu
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
_______________________________________________
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