[Tango-L] Some people would complain if you hung them with a new rope...

[Yale Tango Club]

Hello all,
  Interesting thread Lois!
  Hehehe. If it takes hiding in the bathroom to escape, it's not the guys who are being rude... 
  We had a thread in the past here discussing how the women say no and guys have to take it, but when the men say no the women are mortally insulted. A man is entirely within his right to avoid dancing with somebody, but it is understandable he doesn't want to cause a scene.
  So how is a man to get out of dancing with ppl he doesn't enjoy dancing with?
  Maybe a woman should say this - ladies we all know there are guys out there that you want to avoid at all costs. It's no different for the women! I know of at least two nutcases that some of my friends (who are not rock stars, by the way, in fact they are the opposite) try very very hard to avoid. Most women are not coocoo/ smelly/ unpleasant or whatever of course, but one can stand to dance with them only in moderation. 
  These same friends enjoy dancing with all kinds of women including a LOT of beginners, in fact they make our beginners feel like a million dollars and we think it's great. They just want to make their own decisions. In order to do that, they may need to be at the other end of the room while they catch their breath and survey the scene and decide what's next. If you want to look around a crowd but not meet any eyes for a minute, it's easier to do if you are not surrounded by them. Hiding in the bathroom on the other hand is definitely an emergency measure to avoid some people at the expense of opportunities for finding people you do want to dance with.
  It is easier as a woman to stay in control of your evening, and it is something you learn after being a beginner and being manhandled and strapped to some trucks or forklifts. Then you learn to dive into your purse when somebody is making it impossible for you to avoid seeing them. If necessary you just say no. It can be hard to learn this. I have recently taken a beginner to the big city for her first time and my first priority, before getting the shoes on, was pointing out all the men I knew would ask her and that she should say no to. Several of them tried! As I knew they would, and I wish somebody had briefed me in my time...
  Tine


Michael Figart II <michaelfigart at yahoo.com> wrote:
  I really try to dance with as many different women as
I can when at a milonga or a festival. I don't care
whether they are beginners, or how old they are, or
what they look like. I hate the gender disparity
generally present, and have a lot of respect for those
women who end up sitting much more than they would
prefer.

I don't mind women asking me to dance; I'm actually
flattered. I will occasionally say no because; 
1. I need a break.
2. I've already danced with her.
3. She doesn't dance my chosen style.
4. I've identified her as one of those who is not
interested in improvement of her dance skills.
5. I've identified her as one who will repeatedly
dance with leaders who show no regard for the rules of
floorcraft.

There is no real solution. Leaders should not be
afraid to say no, and in many cases, provide the
reason behind that decision. This should be done
graciously and politely, but without fear of being
viewed as "ungraceful". Even if one or two followers
take exception to a refusal, will their opinion color
the perceptions of the community as a whole? No.

Followers should not ask the same leader to dance more
than once a night, and realize that the best way to
get dances is to work on their skills, and show a lot
of appreciation (and even some praise), to the leaders
who ask them.

And use the cabaceo! When I find a woman's penetrating
gaze directed at me with a smile, I regard that as
just as much of a request as a verbal one, and find it
impossible to refuse (except for reasons listed
above). And I like it better when women use the
time-honored and trial-tested method of the cabaceo.

And leaders, even the great ones, should show a bit of
chivalry and dance with as many as they can, as much
as they can, without undue regard to appearance or
skill level, except where it would conflict with their
"rules" such as the ones I listed.

And ladies, please take note of number 5 above. I will
refuse requests, and not ask you to dance, if I've
seen you participate in gross violation of rules of
floorcraft.

There is no real solution, except the proper use of
etiquette, and being able to say no.

Michael Figart II, Houston Tx
Denver in two days!!!!!

--- Lois Donnay wrote:

> That's a beautiful saying from my stalwart Minnesota
> family. We 
> Minnesotans are
> all very good at suffering, and very proud of our
> ability to withstand the
> worst without complaint. Just look at our weather!
> 
> Well, I guess that was before some of us started
> dancing tango. I keep getting
> asked by some of my students - leaders - how they
> can get out of dances
> gracefully. It seems that once they get good - and I
> am proud to say I to turn
> out great leaders - women are hounding them for
> dances. So much so, that they
> have to hide or spend unusual amounts of time in the
> bathrooms in order to
> avoid being rude.
> 
> Of course, my inclination is to tell them that
> before they started tango they
> would have given their eye teeth to have such a
> problem, and they should just
> be grateful to be in such demand, but they tell me
> this issue is ruining their
> enjoyment of the dance. They would like me to ask
> followers to wait to be
> asked.
> 
> I understand that some women can't afford as many
> lessons as it may 
> take to get
> good at this dance. It is possible some feel that
> lessons are not so necessary
> for followers. (I find that whole idea that a woman
> can be a good 
> follower in 3
> months while it takes a leader a year to be total
> hogwash-it requires at least
> as much work for followers, if not more). I
> definitely understand that a poor
> follower can wreck a leader's bakc (I lead a lot,
> too) But leaving women who
> are still working on their skills on the sidelines
> is not a good idea either.
> If they stop coming to milongas because no one will
> dance with them, 
> what's the
> point?
> 
> Of course, we also have a little problem of women
> only wanting to dance 
> with the
> best leaders - whether or not they are at their
> level.
> 
> Any solutions?
> 
> 
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
> 

_______________________________________________
Tango-L mailing list
Tango-L at mit.edu
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l



      ************************ 
www.yaletangoclub.org