[Tango-L] Social Tango: A Cultural Perspective

[El Mundo del Tango]

> Ron...If  you  understood Argentine culture as well as you claim
> to, you
> would know that "Milonguero" is simply someone who goes partying
> and dancing
> all the time, for social purposes, whatever style he or she dances.
>  The word is used all over Southamerica , is not exclusive of
> Argentina and
> it may have nothing to do with Tango, depending on context.

<<Gabriel, you need to travel more.  Get out of San Diego. Southern
California is a trap, and it eats at your soul.>>

I travel very often, Tom, including to your great Festivals in Denver. Thank 
you for your concern.
And if you are saying, (not sure), that Southern California is Tangowise 
behind other areas of the USA, I agree, but that is not the point.

<<Obviously (if you have spent any time in Buenos Aires), the word
milonguero is the most common term for the rhythmic, close-embrace
style of dance typical of numerous milongas in Buenos Aires. >>

Sure is the most common term everywhere . That does not mean is right or 
correct or harmless. It is the most common term NOW because its promoters 
have used it and  abused it to give themselves a bath of "glamour and 
legitimacy" while between the lines throwing dirt on everybody else.

<<I have
sometimes heard this style refered to as apilado (?), or confiteria
(?), or estilo del centro (Lapadula), or club style (Arquimbau),>>

Arquimbau and Lapadula are nice men. They do not want to claim a word that 
belongs NOT to them, but to all of us.

<<but
those seem to be personal names for the same thing, not generally
accepted ones.>>

Accepted by who? Its promoters? Of course they prefer "Milonguero". It works 
better, but it is a lie. The meaning of the word is not related to style 
whatsoever.

<<I've never heard of the tango style you call "Buenos Aires Style".>>

Not me, Tom...Some of the same people who call it "milonguero". It is 
another dirty semantic trick to strenghten the idea  that they are the "real 
thing".
They also claim is the most popular in BsAs and festivals
all over the world. They take advantage of the untrained eye beginners, who 
confusse it with Salon in close embrace. Don't believe me? You should travel 
to Southern California more often....

<<To me, apilado is more of a descriptive than a style. Maybe it is
similar to the english term close-embrace.
Contrary to your claim, the term "Milonguero Style" is definately  used to 
name the style useful for crowded floors with fewer pivoting
ochos and frequent use of ocho cortados. Tango de Salon in Buenos
Aires pretty much means social style tango (without reference to
specific details) while Salon Style Tango in the US usually means the
slightly open style emphasizing pivoting ochos, circular molinetes, 
sacadas, etc.
It may be that Susana Miller coined the term Milonguero Style, but it  is 
quite widespread these days. For example, see the teaching  advertisements 
in all the Buenos Aires tango magazines. Whether you
like it or not, Milonguero Style is one of the more common names given.
While you see every style in Buenos Aires (especially from  foreigners) it 
is a bit hard to find milongas in Buenos Aires that  are not predominantly 
milonguero, i.e. rhythmic, close-embrace.>>

You seem to be implying that Salon is not close embrace and is not 
rhythmic...are you?

 <<I  have asked Sergio several times to supply a list of milongas where 
classic salon (contrasted from the rhythmic, close-embrace with lots
of ocho cortados) is the majority style, but he hasn't reported on them.>>

If  he had, most people  in the US  AND in Bs As would not believe him 
because they have been fooled into thinking that anything in close embrace 
is the so called "milonguero".Hopefully, you are not one of those people, 
Tom.

Gabriel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Stermitz" <stermitz at tango.org>
To: <tango-L at mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango: A Cultural Perspective


> On Jul 12, 2006, at 9:43 PM, El Mundo del Tango wrote:
>
>> Ron...If  you  understood Argentine culture as well as you claim
>> to, you
>> would know that "Milonguero" is simply someone who goes partying
>> and dancing
>> all the time, for social purposes, whatever style he or she dances.
>>  The word is used all over Southamerica , is not exclusive of
>> Argentina and
>> it may have nothing to do with Tango, depending on context.
>
> Gabriel, you need to travel more.  Get out of San Diego. Southern
> California is a trap, and it eats at your soul.
>
>
> Obviously (if you have spent any time in Buenos Aires), the word
> milonguero is the most common term for the rhythmic, close-embrace
> style of dance typical of numerous milongas in Buenos Aires. I have
> sometimes heard this style refered to as apilado (?), or confiteria
> (?), or estilo del centro (Lapadula), or club style (Arquimbau), but
> those seem to be personal names for the same thing, not generally
> accepted ones.
>
> I've never heard of the tango style you call "Buenos Aires Style".
>
> To me, apilado is more of a descriptive than a style. Maybe it is
> similar to the english term close-embrace.
>
> Contrary to your claim, the term "Milonguero Style" is definately
> used to name the style useful for crowded floors with fewer pivoting
> ochos and frequent use of ocho cortados. Tango de Salon in Buenos
> Aires pretty much means social style tango (without reference to
> specific details) while Salon Style Tango in the US usually means the
> slightly open style emphasizing pivoting ochos, circular molinetes,
> sacadas, etc.
>
> It may be that Susana Miller coined the term Milonguero Style, but it
> is quite widespread these days. For example, see the teaching
> advertisements in all the Buenos Aires tango magazines. Whether you
> like it or not, Milonguero Style is one of the more common names given.
>
> While you see every style in Buenos Aires (especially from
> foreigners) it is a bit hard to find milongas in Buenos Aires that
> are not predominantly milonguero, i.e. rhythmic, close-embrace. I
> have asked Sergio several times to supply a list of milongas where
> classic salon (contrasted from the rhythmic, close-embrace with lots
> of ocho cortados) is the majority style, but he hasn't reported on them.
>
> Likewise, how many milongas in B.A. have a majority of nuevo dancers?
> There must be a few?
>
>
>> I think you know very well that you should be calling what you teach
>> "Apilado"  o "Del Centro" but you desperately hang on to the
>> "Milonguero "
>> label to imply that you are the "real thing", "the authentic one"
>> and the
>> next guy is NOT .
>> Others like you do the same thing with the labels "Close embrace"
>> or "Buenos
>> Aires style". Shame on them and you. You are excluding and offending
>> millions of milongueros, who never danced such style. Not  now, not
>> in the
>> Golden ages, not in Buenos Aires, not anywhere . Anybody who doubts
>> this,
>> can refer to Pepito Avellaneda's videos or discuss the issue with
>> living
>> legend milongueros Facundo Posadas or Julio Balmaceda, to name just
>> two.
>> Salon and Nuevo,  like it or not, are also "social ", were also
>> created
>> (Salon, half a century before the so called "milonguero") and are
>> danced in
>> Buenos Aires, depending on which Milonga you attend, and  can also
>> be danced
>> in close embrace, even closer.
>> ...
>> Gabriel
>
>
> You are QEO: Quite Easily Offended by Ron's use of the term Milonguero.
>
> I'm not sure who or how the word milonguero offends. I don't know
> about the rest of Latin America... which countries are you thinking
> of?  In Buenos Aires the term historically has had a pejorative
> connotation, as in a layabout who sleeps all day, doesn't work and
> spends all their nights dancing and chasing women.
>
> Julio Balmaceda is a great tango dancer, but I don't think legendary
> is the appropriate adjective. I would reserve legendary for tango
> dancers like Juilo's father, Miguel Balmaceda. This isn't a criticism
> of J.B. It is a criticism of the excessive hyperbole used to
> advertise various teachers. It sometimes seems the lesser the dancer,
> the greater the superlative, and JB reputation is quite sufficient;
> he doesn't need excessive superlatives.
>
> Nor would you call Juilo a milonguero, by lifestyle (as you defined
> the word) or dance style (as so many others define it). Yes, Julio
> goes out performing and teaching all the time, but not necessarily
> partying, dancing and wenching all the time. I don't think Julio
> would call himself a milonguero.
>
>
>> I agree with you and Tom  that we all must use judgement  to
>> adjust to
>> circumstances and context, but that has absolutely nothing to do
>> with style.
>> Horrendeous navigation come in all styles and is more a matter of
>> attitude
>> rather than skills or lack thereof.
>>  To lift your partner over yor head or have her hanging around your
>> waist I
>
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