SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
Robert van den Berg
wug at bergtop-ict.nl
Fri May 7 06:36:38 EDT 2010
Same question here... :)
Op 7 mei 2010, om 11:39 heeft JANSSENS Koenraad het volgende geschreven:
> Hi,
>
> Any specific useful sap courses on the topic? (still have some
> education budget to spend)
>
> Best Regards
>
> Koenraad
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of Dart, Jocelyn
>>> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 1:06 AM
>>> To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>>> Subject: RE: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
>>>
>>> Hi Tom and all,
>>> Suggest you start by looking at the Business Process Management
>>> section of the SAP Developer Network site
>>> http://sdn.sap.com
>>> I've found the blogs by Soeren Balko particularly helpful.
>>>
>>> Also look at the Simple Sample Applications on the ES workplace
>>> site http://esworkplace.sap.com You can apply for a
>>> userid/password for free on this site to actually run the simple
>>> sample applications and you can download the SCA
>>> files if you want to see what they look like in NWDS.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jocelyn
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On
>>> Behalf Of Simon, Tom
>>> Sent: Friday, 7 May 2010 12:10 AM
>>> To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>> Subject: RE: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
>>>
>>>
>>> I appreciate the site and read every email that comes across.
>>> Though we
>>> only have recently begun using workflow this site was instrumental
>>> in
>>> understanding and solving some of the workflow issues when we
>>> implemented our Travel workflow in ESS. I would like to know more
>>> about BPM.
>>>
>>> Tom Simon
>>> Auto-Owners Insurance
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of sap-wug-request at mit.edu
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:23 AM
>>> To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>> Subject: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
>>>
>>> Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to
>>> sap-wug at mit.edu
>>>
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>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
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>>>
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>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>> specific than
>>> "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. RE: This Group (Sharath K)
>>> 2. RE: This Group (Dart, Jocelyn)
>>> 3. RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>> (michael.mcley at daimler.com)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 16:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Sharath K <ksharath77 at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: RE: This Group
>>> To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
>>> Message-ID: <920737.91289.qm at web39706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Yes, Definitely this is a usefull group...I always found great
>>> solutions
>>> here..
>>> and learned a lot from other's posts..
>>>
>>> thanks a lot to every one on this group..
>>>
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Sharath K
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Mike Pokraka <wug at workflowconnections.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Mike Pokraka <wug at workflowconnections.com>
>>> Subject: RE: This Group
>>> To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
>>> Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 10:44 AM
>>>
>>> Hi Babette,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the kind words. The fact that they come from someone who
>>> doesn't post often hilights that posts do retain their usefulness
>>> beyond
>>> the initial response. This is the kind of thing that keeps me
>>> motivated
>>> to contribute - even if sometimes a hastily scribbled response
>>> that I
>>> hope may be of use.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 4, 2010 6:59 pm, Birchett, Babette wrote:
>>>> Hi Experts,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm kind of a beginner and I find this group VERY useful too.? I
>>>> learn
>>>
>>>> a lot reading your emails.? I save them all in a folder and have
>>>> referred back to them a couple of times when I had a problem.?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> so much for taking your time to answer questions and helping people
>>>> with their problems.? It's a great resource and we really
>>>> appreciate
>>> it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Babette Birchett
>>>>
>>>> SAP Workflow Developer
>>>>
>>>> City of Dallas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at MIT.EDU [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at MIT.EDU] On
>>>> Behalf Of Shai Eyal
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:53 PM
>>>> To: sap-wug at MIT.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: This Group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Nash,
>>>>
>>>> I disagree - I do believe this group is very useful. Maybe not for
>>>> beginners, but I found it very helpful and I do my best to help in
>>>> what I can.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Shai Eyal SAP Logistics senior consultant SAP Workflow & BPM
>>>> specialist
>>>>
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/shaieyal
>>>> Mobile: 972-52-5816633
>>>> Skype Me! <skype:shai.eyal?call>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/05/2010 19:23, sap-wug-request at mit.edu wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This Group
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 05:15:52 +0200
>>> From: "Dart, Jocelyn" <jocelyn.dart at sap.com>
>>> Subject: RE: This Group
>>> To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <
>>> 8C507B5E0BA5114E933C3C6E2E9729E0065E2B5A25 at DEWDFECCR01.wdf.sap.corp>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Just adding the SAP employee perspective... and by the way I'm
>>> Product
>>> Lead for NW BPM in ANZ Field Services this year.
>>>
>>> I agree currently NW BPM and Workflow should be considered as
>>> complementary. Mainly due to existing business content and solution
>>> maturity issues. Also yes Workflow will not be going away anytime
>>> soon.
>>> It is however possible to use NW BPM instead of Workflow for a new
>>> site
>>> that does not use workflow at all for scenarios that we would
>>> previously
>>> have done in workflow (e.g. purchase order approval) - provided
>>> current
>>> limitations/restrictions are understood and this is happening at
>>> some
>>> sites.
>>>
>>> A lot of the concepts and issues around process handling are the
>>> same.
>>> We currently have a BPM forum in SDN, so the question for this
>>> forum is:
>>> as BPM usage grows do you want to start covering that area as well
>>> or
>>> just stick with traditional workflow?
>>>
>>> I can't give any official details on future releases yet but I can
>>> confirm generally that we are expecting some better integration
>>> options
>>> between workflow and NW BPM when we get to 7.3 on both the backend
>>> and
>>> NW BPM platforms most likely around business event management and
>>> calling of ABAP-based applications. We also expect some sort of
>>> import
>>> for 7.3 although I don't expect we will be translating from
>>> workflow to
>>> BPM or vice versa - more likely import of a model from business
>>> process
>>> modelling applications. I don't expect workflow to be further
>>> developed
>>> - although I agree BPMN is easier to work with and enables better
>>> cross
>>> communication between business and IT.
>>>
>>> If anyone has any specific questions I'm happy to provide what
>>> information I can. There are trial versions available on SDN if you
>>> want to have a play with NW BPM, or try out the pre-built Simple
>>> Sample
>>> Applications on the ESWorkplace site.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jocelyn
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of
>>> Mike Pokraka [wug at workflowconnections.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2010 1:42 AM
>>> To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>>> Subject: Re: This Group
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> You'll be pleased to know that I don't consider your situation that
>>> peculiar, most of my projects have been great supporters of
>>> workflow.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately it's a question of commercial incentive for SAP to
>>> devote
>>> significant resources to the workflow engine, so it's easy to
>>> arrive at
>>> the "if it ain't broke..." conclusion when asking how further
>>> development is going to increase licensing revenue. For that
>>> matter, I
>>> don't see a major MM or SD revision coming out any time soon either.
>>>
>>> What I do know is that SAP may not place great strategic value on
>>> Workflow, but do still consider it of functional value. Of course
>>> if you
>>> mention BOR there'll be contempt because... well you know my
>>> opinion on
>>> it. Workflow however remains a recommended technology under SAP's
>>> Best
>>> Built Apps initiative, now in it's third iteration
>>> (http://bestbuiltapps.sap.com - page 18-19), and they are
>>> committed to
>>> supporting it for a long time.
>>>
>>> NetWeaver BPM is not designed as a replacement for workflow, but a
>>> complementary product. NWBPM has breadth and WF had depth. NWBPM
>>> still
>>> has significant shortcomings - a lot of them - and some won't ever
>>> go
>>> away simply due to the opposing nature of the designs. For this
>>> reason I
>>> don't think WF is dead for a long while yet. I see at least 5-10
>>> years
>>> of significant WF development in the majority of organisations. A
>>> great
>>> many aren't even using the UWL yet.
>>>
>>> What would be great is something in between the two, and one way
>>> would
>>> be a shift towards BPMN compliance/compatibility in the ABAP
>>> workflow
>>> engine.
>>> In theory not a ridiculous undertaking as the SAP-WF design is not
>>> too
>>> far off BPMN rules (close enough that I advocate BPMN as a
>>> documentation
>>> standard for workflows). As NWBPM is BPMN-based, it would make
>>> things a
>>> little more portable between the two engines. In dreamland that
>>> would
>>> allow people to design a process independent of either and deploy
>>> different parts of it on whichever engine is most suitable.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> develop it further, because the amount of effort required to impact
>>> =licensing revenue?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45 pm, Madgambler wrote:
>>>> Much as I'd like to agree with you Susan, I see and hear plenty
>>>> to the
>>>
>>>> contrary from SAP's own consultants every day here in the UK.
>>>> And it
>>>> disappoints me because I see a lot of untapped potential being
>>>> overlooked because: a) it's considered to be 'old' so it's not
>>>> being
>>>> taught in Walldorf/Mumbai, b) it's entirely dependent on ABAP to
>>>> function and c) SAP are trying to abandon their traditional Gui for
>>>> Web UI / BOL / GenIL at an alarming rate.
>>>>
>>>> Granted our situation is a bit peculiar because of the size of the
>>>> system and the (over)dependence on Workflow here but I feel I
>>>> have to
>>>> regularly defend Workflow as a 'workhorse' on a daily basis. And
>>>> to be
>>>
>>>> honest I'm starting to regard it more and more as an obsolete
>>>> dead-end
>>>
>>>> as that seems to be the overwhelming attitude of anyone coming in
>>>> from
>>>
>>>> the CRM and PI worlds. I don't really believe that it is dead by
>>>> the
>>>> way but I do think the bell is tolling faintly.
>>>>
>>>> Start talking about BOR to a CRM Consultant these days and you'll
>>>> hear
>>>
>>>> a guffaw of contempt followed swiftly by a dismissal about it being
>>>> yesterday's tool with a limited future. Mention SBWP to the latest
>>>> breed of Developers and half won't have a clue the other half
>>>> won't
>>>> care, prefering to talk instead about the Web UI home page instead.
>>>>
>>>> Now it could be just me but I really don't see any investment in
>>>> Workflow stuff, just a tacit acceptance that it's hanging around so
>>>> people have to be aware of it and be backwards compatible. The only
>>>> driving force behind Workflow now appears to come from the
>>>> clients who
>>>
>>>> use it and rely on it.
>>>>
>>>> As with ABAP it seems that SAP aren't dumb, they know they have
>>>> cash
>>>> cow with Workflow. So it's not like it's going to disappear anytime
>>>> soon. But apart from the massive OO heart bypass we saw from 4.6c
>>>> to
>>>> ECC 6 little else is on the horizon as far as we know. Perhaps you
>>>> know different?
>>>>
>>>> Mike GT
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 4 May 2010, at 20:25, "Keohan, Susan - 1140 - MITLL"
>>>> <keohan at ll.mit.edu > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> I have seen the decrease in traffic over the past few years. As a
>>>>> matter of fact, I proposed sunsetting this forum in 2007 - at it's
>>>>> 10-year birthday.
>>>>> At the time, many subscribers asked that the list be kept alive,
>>>>> and
>>>>> so it is.
>>>>> As long as someone sees benefit in it, then it is serving its'
>>>>> purpose.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps one way to increase traffic and pour more knowledge into
>>>>> the
>>>>> SAP-WUG fountain is to make a commitment to try to answer - say
>>>>> one
>>>>> question a week
>>>>> - even if it's a little time-consuming? I'll sign up for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for Business Workflow receding and waning as a skill set - I
>>>>> respectfully disagree. It's true there are new tools and new
>>>>> technologies, but I still see workflow as the workhorse it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Sue
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Susan R. Keohan
>>>>> SAP Workflow Specialist
>>>>> Enterprise Applications
>>>>> Information Services Department
>>>>> MIT Lincoln Laboratory
>>>>> 244 Wood Street, LI-200
>>>>> Lexington, MA. 02420
>>>>> 781-981-3561
>>>>> keohan at LL.MIT.EDU
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Madgambler
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:04 PM
>>>>> To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>>>>> Cc: SAP Workflow Users' Group; sap-wug-request at mit.edu
>>>>> Subject: Re: This Group
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> No point replying to other posts on this thread as the original
>>>>> message is succinct enough to merit a direct response.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the attention being paid to this forum is directly
>>>>> proportional to the amount and complexity of Workflow development
>>>>> being carried out and the depth of Workflow development
>>>>> experience in
>>>
>>>>> the average subscriber.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now it could be argued that fewer 'new' Workflow issues being
>>>>> discussed here could mean good or bad things are happening in the
>>>>> real world. From my personal experience it seems more likely
>>>>> that SAP
>>>
>>>>> Buisiness Workflow is receding as a tool and waning as a skillset.
>>>>>
>>>>> Granted it's more immediately accessible to the general Client
>>>>> because it's embedded in the standard offering. But are people
>>>>> pushing the boundaries of what it can do or have we hit them
>>>>> already
>>>>> and that's as far as SAP plan to take it?
>>>>>
>>>>> These days the juicier Business Process Modelling projects are
>>>>> being
>>>>> done in the Composite Environment (Java) arena and less often in
>>>>> the
>>>>> ABAP stack at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> So rather than this Forum losing support I would actually argue
>>>>> that
>>>>> Workflow itself has reached a plateau and stopped evolving.
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> only for a while...
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike GT
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4 May 2010, at 16:48, Nash John <emailtonash at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I get the feeling that this group is slowly but steadily
>>>>>> loosing its
>>>
>>>>>> significance as I don't see members active/willing to get
>>>>>> involved
>>>>>> in discussion/help as it used to be 3 to 4 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nash
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>>>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 07:22:45 -0500
>>> From: michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>> Subject: RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>> To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <OFE3109FF5.09B47453-ON8625771B.00432812-8625771B.0044047D at dcx.dcx>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Sue,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your answer, it got me looking into the actual method
>>> call of
>>> the first task in the workflow - that's were the problem is. I
>>> guess
>>> instead of looking into a 100% custom BO method written by one of
>>> our
>>> biggest hack developers, I assumed that I had uncovered a bug in SAP
>>> standard that no one else had reported in what, 10 years? Stoo-pid.
>>> Sorry for wasting your time but thanks again ;-)
>>>
>>> Michael McLey
>>> MBUSI - IT Parts & Administration
>>> Mercedes-Benz US International, Inc.
>>> 1 Mercedes Drive
>>> Vance, AL 35490
>>> PHONE: (205) 462 - 5239
>>> EMAIL: michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sue.Doughty at odfl.com
>>> Sent by: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu
>>> 05/05/2010 03:26 PM
>>> Please respond to
>>> sap-wug at mit.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> To
>>> sap-wug at mit.edu
>>> cc
>>>
>>> Subject
>>> RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> I just tried the same event with the invalid key and the event
>>> delivered
>>>
>>> properly. When the workflow that was triggered started, it went
>>> into
>>> error status because the trip did not exist.
>>>
>>> Do you have the Event trace turned on? If not, turn it on (SWELS
>>> for
>>> that
>>> specific event) long enough for your event to be triggered again.
>>> When
>>> you look in the Event trace in SWEQADM, you can double click the
>>> event
>>> that you had the issue with and in the Receiver Data section you
>>> will
>>> see
>>> if there were any error messages.
>>>
>>> There could be an issue in the Workflow?s Header section under Start
>>> Events that is not allowing the workflow to start.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Sue
>>>
>>>
>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On
>>> Behalf
>>>
>>> Of michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:54 PM
>>> To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>> Subject: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>>
>>>
>>> Wuggers,
>>>
>>> Here is an issue which has probably been discussed before, but I
>>> cannot
>>> seem to find an answer for it.
>>>
>>> With a few of our workflows, we use the event queue. And of
>>> course the
>>> background job (SWEQSRV - running program RSWEQSRV) dequeues the
>>> events
>>> and triggers the workflows. I think most people here are familiar
>>> with
>>> this process.
>>>
>>> The wierd thing is, if I have an event in the queue (which I think
>>> is
>>> actually table SWEQUEUE) with an invalid key (in my case BUS2089-
>>> CREATED
>>>
>>> with key whatever - 999999999999999999, when the job runs, it will
>>> create
>>> a new event with key 000000000000000000 of the same object and
>>> event.
>>> This
>>> new event also has an invalid key, and so will keep generating a new
>>> event
>>> with each run of the batch job (the events do not stack up, it just
>>> removes the old one and replaces it with a new event).
>>>
>>> Is this normal behavior for this program? Can this behavior be
>>> changed
>>> (maybe to not generate a new event)? Any similar experiences?
>>> Michael McLey
>>> MBUSI - IT Parts & Administration
>>> Mercedes-Benz US International, Inc.
>>> 1 Mercedes Drive
>>> Vance, AL 35490
>>> PHONE: (205) 462 - 5239
>>> EMAIL: michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>> If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us
>>> immediately that
>>>
>>> you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank
>>> you for
>>> your cooperation.
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us
>>> immediately that
>>> you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank
>>> you for
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>>>
>>> End of SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
>>> ***************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
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