FW: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13

Fri May 7 05:39:50 EDT 2010

Hi,

Any specific useful sap courses on the topic?  (still have some education budget to spend)

Best Regards

Koenraad

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of Dart, Jocelyn
>>Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 1:06 AM
>>To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>>Subject: RE: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
>>
>>Hi Tom and all,
>>Suggest you start by looking at the Business Process Management section of the SAP Developer Network site
>>http://sdn.sap.com
>>I've found the blogs by Soeren Balko particularly helpful.
>>
>>Also look at the Simple Sample Applications on the ES workplace site http://esworkplace.sap.com You can apply for a
>>userid/password for free on this site to actually run the simple sample applications and you can download the SCA
>>files if you want to see what they look like in NWDS.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Jocelyn
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of Simon, Tom
>>Sent: Friday, 7 May 2010 12:10 AM
>>To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>Subject: RE: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
>>
>>
>>I appreciate the site and read every email that comes across. Though we
>>only have recently begun using workflow this site was instrumental in
>>understanding and solving some of the workflow issues when we
>>implemented our Travel workflow in ESS.   I would like to know more
>>about BPM.
>>
>>Tom Simon
>>Auto-Owners Insurance
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf
>>Of sap-wug-request at mit.edu
>>Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:23 AM
>>To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>Subject: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
>>
>>Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to
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>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
>>"Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."
>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. RE: This Group (Sharath K)
>>   2. RE: This Group (Dart, Jocelyn)
>>   3. RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>      (michael.mcley at daimler.com)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 16:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: Sharath K <ksharath77 at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: RE: This Group
>>To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
>>Message-ID: <920737.91289.qm at web39706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Yes, Definitely this is a usefull group...I always found great solutions
>>here..
>>and learned a lot from other's posts..
>>
>>thanks a lot to every one on this group..
>>
>>
>>regards,
>>Sharath K
>>
>>--- On Wed, 5/5/10, Mike Pokraka <wug at workflowconnections.com> wrote:
>>
>>From: Mike Pokraka <wug at workflowconnections.com>
>>Subject: RE: This Group
>>To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
>>Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 10:44 AM
>>
>>Hi Babette,
>>
>>Thanks for the kind words. The fact that they come from someone who
>>doesn't post often hilights that posts do retain their usefulness beyond
>>the initial response. This is the kind of thing that keeps me motivated
>>to contribute - even if sometimes a hastily scribbled response that I
>>hope may be of use.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>On Tue, May 4, 2010 6:59 pm, Birchett, Babette wrote:
>>> Hi Experts,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm kind of a beginner and I find this group VERY useful too.? I learn
>>
>>> a lot reading your emails.? I save them all in a folder and have
>>> referred back to them a couple of times when I had a problem.? Thanks
>>> so much for taking your time to answer questions and helping people
>>> with their problems.? It's a great resource and we really appreciate
>>it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Babette Birchett
>>>
>>> SAP Workflow Developer
>>>
>>> City of Dallas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at MIT.EDU [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at MIT.EDU] On
>>> Behalf Of Shai Eyal
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:53 PM
>>> To: sap-wug at MIT.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: This Group
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Nash,
>>>
>>> I disagree - I do believe this group is very useful. Maybe not for
>>> beginners, but I found it very helpful and I do my best to help in
>>> what I can.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Shai Eyal SAP Logistics senior consultant SAP Workflow & BPM
>>> specialist
>>>
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/shaieyal
>>> Mobile: 972-52-5816633
>>> Skype Me! <skype:shai.eyal?call>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/05/2010 19:23, sap-wug-request at mit.edu wrote:
>>>
>>> This Group
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
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>>
>>
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>>Message: 2
>>Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 05:15:52 +0200
>>From: "Dart, Jocelyn" <jocelyn.dart at sap.com>
>>Subject: RE: This Group
>>To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
>>Message-ID:
>>
>><8C507B5E0BA5114E933C3C6E2E9729E0065E2B5A25 at DEWDFECCR01.wdf.sap.corp>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>Hi Mike,
>>Just adding the SAP employee perspective... and by the way I'm Product
>>Lead for NW BPM in ANZ Field Services this year.
>>
>>I agree currently NW BPM and Workflow should be considered as
>>complementary.  Mainly due to existing business content and solution
>>maturity issues.   Also yes Workflow will not be going away anytime
>>soon.
>>It is however possible to use NW BPM instead of Workflow for a new site
>>that does not use workflow at all for scenarios that we would previously
>>have done in workflow (e.g. purchase order approval) - provided current
>>limitations/restrictions are understood and this is happening at some
>>sites.
>>
>>A lot of the concepts and issues around process handling are the same.
>>We currently have a BPM forum in SDN, so the question for this forum is:
>>as BPM usage grows do you want to start covering that area as well or
>>just stick with traditional workflow?
>>
>>I can't give any official details on future releases yet but I can
>>confirm generally that we are expecting some better integration options
>>between workflow and NW BPM when we get to 7.3 on both the backend and
>>NW BPM platforms most likely around business event management and
>>calling of ABAP-based applications.   We also expect some sort of import
>>for 7.3 although I don't expect we will be translating from workflow to
>>BPM or vice versa - more likely import of a model from business process
>>modelling applications.  I don't expect workflow to be further developed
>>- although I agree BPMN is easier to work with and enables better cross
>>communication between business and IT.
>>
>>If anyone has any specific questions I'm happy to provide what
>>information I can.  There are trial versions available on SDN if you
>>want to have a play with NW BPM, or try out the pre-built Simple Sample
>>Applications on the ESWorkplace site.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Jocelyn
>>
>>________________________________________
>>From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of
>>Mike Pokraka [wug at workflowconnections.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2010 1:42 AM
>>To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>>Subject: Re: This Group
>>
>>Hi Mike,
>>
>>You'll be pleased to know that I don't consider your situation that
>>peculiar, most of my projects have been great supporters of workflow.
>>
>>Unfortunately it's a question of commercial incentive for SAP to devote
>>significant resources to the workflow engine, so it's easy to arrive at
>>the "if it ain't broke..." conclusion when asking how further
>>development is going to increase licensing revenue. For that matter, I
>>don't see a major MM or SD revision coming out any time soon either.
>>
>>What I do know is that SAP may not place great strategic value on
>>Workflow, but do still consider it of functional value. Of course if you
>>mention BOR there'll be contempt because... well you know my opinion on
>>it. Workflow however remains a recommended technology under SAP's Best
>>Built Apps initiative, now in it's third iteration
>>(http://bestbuiltapps.sap.com - page 18-19), and they are committed to
>>supporting it for a long time.
>>
>>NetWeaver BPM is not designed as a replacement for workflow, but a
>>complementary product. NWBPM has breadth and WF had depth. NWBPM still
>>has significant shortcomings - a lot of them - and some won't ever go
>>away simply due to the opposing nature of the designs. For this reason I
>>don't think WF is dead for a long while yet. I see at least 5-10 years
>>of significant WF development in the majority of organisations. A great
>>many aren't even using the UWL yet.
>>
>>What would be great is something in between the two, and one way would
>>be a shift towards BPMN compliance/compatibility in the ABAP workflow
>>engine.
>>In theory not a ridiculous undertaking as the SAP-WF design is not too
>>far off BPMN rules (close enough that I advocate BPMN as a documentation
>>standard for workflows). As NWBPM is BPMN-based, it would make things a
>>little more portable between the two engines. In dreamland that would
>>allow people to design a process independent of either and deploy
>>different parts of it on whichever engine is most suitable.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>develop it further, because the amount of effort required to impact
>>=licensing revenue?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45 pm, Madgambler wrote:
>>> Much as I'd like to agree with you Susan, I see and hear plenty to the
>>
>>> contrary from SAP's own consultants every day  here in the UK. And it
>>> disappoints me because I see a lot of untapped potential being
>>> overlooked because: a) it's considered to be 'old' so it's not being
>>> taught in Walldorf/Mumbai, b) it's entirely dependent on ABAP to
>>> function and c) SAP are trying to abandon their traditional Gui for
>>> Web UI / BOL / GenIL at an alarming rate.
>>>
>>> Granted our situation is a bit peculiar because of the size of the
>>> system and the (over)dependence on Workflow here but I feel I have to
>>> regularly defend Workflow as a 'workhorse' on a daily basis. And to be
>>
>>> honest I'm starting to regard it more and more as an obsolete dead-end
>>
>>> as that seems to be the overwhelming attitude of anyone coming in from
>>
>>> the CRM and PI worlds. I don't really believe that it is dead by the
>>> way but I do think the bell is tolling faintly.
>>>
>>> Start talking about BOR to a CRM Consultant these days and you'll hear
>>
>>> a guffaw of contempt followed swiftly by a dismissal about it being
>>> yesterday's tool with a limited future. Mention SBWP to the latest
>>> breed of Developers and  half won't have a clue the other half won't
>>> care, prefering to talk instead about the Web UI home page instead.
>>>
>>> Now it could be just me but I really don't see any investment in
>>> Workflow stuff, just a tacit acceptance that it's hanging around so
>>> people have to be aware of it and be backwards compatible. The only
>>> driving force behind Workflow now appears to come from the clients who
>>
>>> use it and rely on it.
>>>
>>> As with ABAP it seems that SAP aren't dumb, they know they have cash
>>> cow with Workflow. So it's not like it's going to disappear anytime
>>> soon. But apart from the massive OO heart bypass we saw from 4.6c to
>>> ECC 6 little else is on the horizon as far as we know. Perhaps you
>>> know different?
>>>
>>> Mike GT
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 4 May 2010, at 20:25, "Keohan, Susan - 1140 - MITLL"
>>> <keohan at ll.mit.edu  > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> I have seen the decrease in traffic over the past few years.  As a
>>>> matter of fact, I proposed sunsetting this forum in 2007 - at it's
>>>> 10-year birthday.
>>>> At the time, many subscribers asked that the list be kept alive, and
>>>> so it is.
>>>> As long as someone sees benefit in it, then it is serving its'
>>>> purpose.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps one way to increase traffic and pour more knowledge into the
>>>> SAP-WUG fountain is to make a commitment to try to answer - say one
>>>> question a week
>>>> - even if it's a little time-consuming?  I'll sign up for that.
>>>>
>>>> As for Business Workflow receding and waning as a skill set - I
>>>> respectfully disagree.  It's true there are new tools and new
>>>> technologies,  but I still see workflow as the workhorse it is.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Sue
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> Susan R. Keohan
>>>> SAP Workflow Specialist
>>>> Enterprise Applications
>>>> Information Services Department
>>>> MIT Lincoln Laboratory
>>>> 244 Wood Street, LI-200
>>>> Lexington, MA. 02420
>>>> 781-981-3561
>>>> keohan at LL.MIT.EDU
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On
>>>> Behalf Of Madgambler
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:04 PM
>>>> To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>>>> Cc: SAP Workflow Users' Group; sap-wug-request at mit.edu
>>>> Subject: Re: This Group
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> No point replying to other posts on this thread as the original
>>>> message is succinct enough to merit a direct response.
>>>>
>>>> I think the attention being paid to this forum is directly
>>>> proportional to the amount and complexity of Workflow development
>>>> being carried out and the depth of Workflow development experience in
>>
>>>> the average subscriber.
>>>>
>>>> Now it could be argued that fewer 'new' Workflow issues being
>>>> discussed here could mean good or bad things are happening in the
>>>> real world. From my personal experience it seems more likely that SAP
>>
>>>> Buisiness Workflow is receding as a tool and waning as a skillset.
>>>>
>>>> Granted it's more immediately accessible to the general Client
>>>> because it's embedded in the standard offering. But are people
>>>> pushing the boundaries of what it can do or have we hit them already
>>>> and that's as far as SAP plan to take it?
>>>>
>>>> These days the juicier Business Process Modelling projects are being
>>>> done in the Composite Environment (Java) arena and less often in the
>>>> ABAP stack at all.
>>>>
>>>> So rather than this Forum losing support I would actually argue that
>>>> Workflow itself has reached a plateau and stopped evolving. Perhaps
>>>> only for a while...
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mike GT
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 4 May 2010, at 16:48, Nash John <emailtonash at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I get the feeling that this group is slowly but steadily loosing its
>>
>>>>> significance as I don't see members active/willing to get involved
>>>>> in discussion/help as it used to be 3 to 4 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Nash
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>>
>>
>>
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>>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 07:22:45 -0500
>>From: michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>Subject: RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>Message-ID:
>>
>><OFE3109FF5.09B47453-ON8625771B.00432812-8625771B.0044047D at dcx.dcx>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>Sue,
>>
>>Thanks for your answer, it got me looking into the actual method call of
>>the first task in the workflow - that's were the problem is.  I guess
>>instead of looking into a 100% custom BO method written by one of our
>>biggest hack developers, I assumed that I had uncovered a bug in SAP
>>standard that no one else had reported in what, 10 years?  Stoo-pid.
>>Sorry for wasting your time but thanks again ;-)
>>
>>Michael McLey
>>MBUSI - IT Parts & Administration
>>Mercedes-Benz US International, Inc.
>>1 Mercedes Drive
>>Vance, AL 35490
>>PHONE:  (205) 462 - 5239
>>EMAIL:   michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Sue.Doughty at odfl.com
>>Sent by: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu
>>05/05/2010 03:26 PM
>>Please respond to
>>sap-wug at mit.edu
>>
>>
>>To
>>sap-wug at mit.edu
>>cc
>>
>>Subject
>>RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Michael,
>>
>>I just tried the same event with the invalid key and the event delivered
>>
>>properly.  When the workflow that was triggered started, it went into
>>error status because the trip did not exist.
>>
>>Do you have the Event trace turned on?  If not, turn it on (SWELS for
>>that
>>specific event) long enough for your event to be triggered again.  When
>>you look in the Event trace in SWEQADM, you can double click the event
>>that you had the issue with and in the Receiver Data section you will
>>see
>>if there were any error messages.
>>
>>There could be an issue in the Workflow?s Header section under Start
>>Events that is not allowing the workflow to start.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Sue
>>
>>
>>From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf
>>
>>Of michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:54 PM
>>To: sap-wug at mit.edu
>>Subject: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
>>
>>
>>Wuggers,
>>
>>Here is an issue which has probably been discussed before, but I cannot
>>seem to find an answer for it.
>>
>>With a few of our workflows, we use the event queue.  And of course the
>>background job (SWEQSRV - running program RSWEQSRV) dequeues the events
>>and triggers the workflows.  I think most people here are familiar with
>>this process.
>>
>>The wierd thing is, if I have an event in the queue (which I think is
>>actually table SWEQUEUE) with an invalid key (in my case BUS2089-CREATED
>>
>>with key whatever - 999999999999999999, when the job runs, it will
>>create
>>a new event with key 000000000000000000 of the same object and event.
>>This
>>new event also has an invalid key, and so will keep generating a new
>>event
>>with each run of the batch job (the events do not stack up, it just
>>removes the old one and replaces it with a new event).
>>
>>Is this normal behavior for this program?  Can this behavior be changed
>>(maybe to not generate a new event)?  Any similar experiences?
>>Michael McLey
>>MBUSI - IT Parts & Administration
>>Mercedes-Benz US International, Inc.
>>1 Mercedes Drive
>>Vance, AL 35490
>>PHONE:  (205) 462 - 5239
>>EMAIL:   michael.mcley at daimler.com
>>If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that
>>
>>you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for
>>your cooperation.
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>>
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>>***************************************
>>
>>
>>
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