[Tango-L] why music

[Gordon Erlebacher]

Thanks Chris, you make interesting points.

Regarding Spanish, I only started having people to speak to once I 
reached Mexico, about 4 months after I started on my Spanish-learning 
journey.
Once there, my tango lessons (that is where I started) were in Spanish, 
and I had Mexican friends, who spoke Spanish and English. But I fully 
realized that my approach was quite different than most and was adapted 
to my particular way of learning. Ultimately, there is more than on path 
to any objective.

Concerning tango, I do not believe there was an easy path, even not long 
ago. Most people in Bs.As. do not dance tango, and there are many poor 
dancers (the majority), but that still leaves many good dancers :-) 
People in Bs.As. are exposed to tango culture and music their entire 
lives, so that even if they start dancing when they are 20 or 30, they 
already know the music, and knowing the music took them several years (I 
do not call that a shortcut). I started when I was 46, and had to learn 
the music from zero. So over 4-5 years, I had to listen to music the 
same number of hours as the person from Bs.As. listened over 10-20 
years. (assuming they start dancing late in life). I maintain there are 
no shortcuts (if counted in terms of number of hours dedicated to tango 
as opposed to number of days). It is said that it takes 10,000 hours to 
become good at anything, whether painting, music, tango or something else.

We had a teacher in Tallahassee (where I live) who came every several 
months to give workshops. We learned by practicing with each other. We 
changed our style several times as we increased our knowledge. Some of 
us went to workshops in other cities. Eventually, 6 years ago, I met 
Mimi Santapa in France, liked what I saw, and stuck with her. I firmly 
believe that once one meets a teacher whose dancing one respects, that 
staying and studying with that teacher (and not a collection of 
teachers) is most beneficial. At least for me.

    Just one man's opinion :)

         Gordon


On 7/11/11 1:13 PM, Chris, UK wrote:
> Gordon wrote:
>
>> I started to learn Spanish in 2004, on my own.
> I think the key point there is "on your own".
>
> Almost everyone who learns to speak Spanish does so from friends and
> family who already speak it. They learn first as listeners and when ready
> they begin to speak. If they didn't have the /opportunity/ to learn that
> way, they'd not even have the /desire/ to learn at all, since what is the
> point of having a language except to communicate with others who share
> it?
>
> The very same is true of the regular way of learning to dance tango. Guys
> and girls alike began by dancing with guys who could already dance. The
> got to hear lots of good dancing before trying to speak it.
>
> Your language learning method is very different. Because you didn't have
> someone to learn from, you turned to computers and books. If (like 99% of
> language learners) you hadn't been able to use a computer or read, you'd
> have been stuck. You learning to speak before you learned to listen in
> real conversations. You mentioned speaking with other humans only as the
> very LAST step on your learning sequence.
>
> And yes your dance learning method is analogous. Clearly there was no-one
> in Gainsville FL from whom you could learn the dance directly. And that
> you were unable to travel to some place where people did dance tango. I
> admire your perseverance in overcoming this, especially since presumably
> you must also have been facing having no-one to dance with once you'd
> succeeded.
>
> It is worth considering the most important difference between the two
> approaches. The regular method starts by listening. You learn from the
> experience of language use that actually works. The alternative method
> starts by speaking. You're saying stuff that your books, computer screen
> tell you are "correct" but you actually have no way of knowing because
> computer and books don't understand anything and they can't tell you
> whether what you are saying makes any sense.
>
> Listening, not speaking, is key to learning. As Confucius (possibly :) )
> said:
>
>   "Man who speaks all the time learns only what he knew already."
>
>> There is no easy path, no shortcuts.
> The fact no easy path was available to you does not mean there is no easy
> path, The easy path is the one by which not long ago half the city of
> BsAs learned to dance, and which today is still travelled by many.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> PS
>
>> My latest dance:
>>
>>         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2STHhI5HRiM
> Nice! :)
>
>
>
>


-- 
Gordon Erlebacher
Department of Scientific Computing
gerlebacher at fsu.edu