[Tango-L] SA- Nuevo Theory vs Practice: Creating a Social

[Tony Rathburn]

Jack wrote:

> > Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Buenos Aires already solved 
> > this problem by allowing for the separation of traditional dancers 
> > and nuevo dancers? 

Actually, in Buenos Aires... currently... no... they haven't.  Many milongas are attended by a group that dances a particular similar style... but all styles are present at all milongas... you tend to see less "nuevo" at more popular traditional milongas... you tend to see less 'traditional' at more well known younger milongas.  I can't call the ones i've attended nuevo milongas... they play almost exclusively traditional music... not 'alternative' music or electronic tango... aside from the style of dance that is predominant, the most obvious difference is the average age of the attendees...


> > 
> > Aren't traditional milongas for Salon and Milonguero style, while 
> > alternative milongas [called practicas] are for anything at all. 

I've been in BA for the past two months... and attended a wide range of milongas.  From what I've seen... a milonga is a milonga.... you're expected to follow line of dance and other accepted customs of a milonga.  At a practica... you may either dance... or practice. An alternative milonga... is an alternative milonga... not a practica...

> > 
> > Wouldn't this solve everyone's problem? 

Not really... like many people, I dance differently depending on my partner... the music... my mood... and the space I'm in... my embrace changes within a tanda... and between tandas... as does my vocabulary and style...

> > 
> > And why do nuevo dancers continue to fight against it? 

~smiles.. i am completely opposed to bad floor craft... regardless of style of dance... i don't consider myself a 'nuevo' dancer... the style i dance varies... why should all people who do not adhere strictly to milonguero or salon style be excluded from an event?  why are people who do not adhere to those strict styles considered 'bad' dancers... to be excluded... even when their floor craft is very good... while bad dancers with poor floor craft... who dance milonguero or salon are simply an annoyance, but acceptable...

i guess what i'd really like is for this discussion to shift from 'right' versus 'wrong' based on style of dance and vocabulary... and have it focus on floor craft and improving the experience of everyone...



Alexis replied:

> Because there is no clear divide until *you* draw a line in the sand. You
> have no authority to do so ... > 

>From Jack:

> IMHO, Alexis is being disingenuous.?I?think everyone knows the type of 
> nuevo that Ron is referring to. It's been described many times and 
> numerous 
> video examples have been provided. And, if the dividing line is so 
> faint, as it
> might be in some instances, I'm sure Ron, and other die-hard 
> traditionalists, 
> wouldn't mind giving the benefit of doubt ...

> Jack

I have to agree with Alexis... I don't think there is... or should be... a line... and I don't think anyone has the right to draw it... except for the host/organizer of an event...

i think that there are extremes of 'nuevo' that are clearly distinguishable from 'salon'... but there is a lot of crossover as well...

or... should be ban those crossover traits as well and tell the salon style dancers to get their act together or go elsewhere... (yes... that was supposed to be a joke... not a serious suggestion...) 

Again... I think a lot of this would come to concensus... if it was a discussion of floor craft... and not style..

> From Jan: 
>
> The separation in BsAs you describe below is by the (average,median) age of the 
> dancers. I am not sure following that path is in the best interest of tango.
> Jan
> 

>From Ron:

> "Not in the best interest of tango"?
> 
> How about a rationale behind that assertion?
> 
> Should we second guess the porten~os? 
> 
> What is in the best interest of tango? How about allowing people to 
> create their own niche rather than forcing the will of the majority (or > space consuming minority) on everyone? It takes nearly an entire room of > traditional dancers to create a traditional milonga, but it only takes 3 > or 4 couples to turn it inot a nuevo fiesta. 
> 
> Ron


wow Ron.. at least Jan put out an idea that that was clearly a thought in process... and open to discussion... and a concern for the best interest of tango generally... not based on intolerance and the opinions of a few to be imposed on everyone...

but if you're going in attack mode... to prove your right... same suggestion... how about a rationale to back up your assertion?

which portenos should we put in charge of setting global standards?

my rationale... in Buenos Aires... the portenos who are organizers... do create their own niche... the portenos who are dancers... as well as visiting dancers... determine which milongas they attend... some milongas are large... some are small... with no attendance differentiation based on style of dance...

the simple solution is to organize and run "Ron's Milonga"... set your rules... invite who you want... exclude the rest...

a second solution would be to only attend the milongas we like... and follow the organizer's wishes... it's a party... the guests don't get to either set the rules or control the guest list... they only get to choose whether or not to attend...

from what i've seen the past couple of months... that is the porteno's approach... or should we second guess the portenos?

but... IMHO... style of dance truly is not the issue... poor floor craft... out of control dancers... regardless of style... and rude behavior... are much higher priorities for the best interests of tango... if there are more than two people attending the event...

and... if i'm in the mood to dance a traditional tanda... and create the connection that implies... the only thing i need is the right follower... not a room full of people... but, i try to do that with all of my tandas...