[Tango-L] Nuevo Theory vs Practice: Creating a Social Nuevo

[Alexis Cousein]

RonTango wrote:
>> "Self-fulfilling prophecy" has a ring of truth to me.  From the discussion,
>> I picture such a traditionalist getting "disrupted" at the first sight of a
>> colgada at a range of twenty yards, because of what's "probably going to
>> happen when I get near that nuevo guy" - then looking for someone ELSE to
>> blame when his lack of focus on his own tango doesn't fulfill his partner's
>> tango happiness.
>>
> 
> Yes, tango milonguero dancers as a group are overly sensitive neurotics.

Straw man. Nobody claims that all tango milonguero dancers are overly sensitive neurotics.

You, on the other hand, do appear to be overly sensitive (since you perceive an
attack on all members of the group where there is none -- note the singular
"a traditionalist" in the quoted message, which clearly tells you what is meant
in propositional logic, and no, it doesn't mean "every")

I don't think you're neurotic, just for the record.

> We appreciate your insight into our thoughts and character.

Again, the use of "we" and "our" does betray "us-vs-them" thinking (and means that you
somehow presume to talk for a group).

And you weren't building a Feindbild?

> Nor can one claim that what one is dancing is social tango unless one understands what social tango is.

And what is that supposed to convey? That neither Brian nor I understand what social tango is
<rolls his eyes>?

For the record, I'm not necessarily a "nuevo" dancer, and I frequently enjoy close embrace
dancing (even with a common axis for leader and follower) on crowded dance floors to
traditional music (though in staunch contrast to the most radical traditionalistas
I consider some tangos from the 40s as danceable, and don't consider that d'Arienzo
betrayed anyone in what he produced just after WWII). As a DJ I played very traditional
as well (though I again confess the world didn't end in 1930 for me, but in 1949, with
the odd 1955 recording thrown in).

But I won't let anyone thow mud on entire groups of people or cry heresy without reacting.
Drag nuevo through the mud and I'll come defending it (though I won't defend any of its excesses,
just as I won't defend any of the excesses of conservatism - by which I mean conservatism
in itself is not a defect, just an attitude, but some of the excesses are defects).

If an entire group on T-L came out and started deriding the "old guard" as boring and not
understanding what they are doing just because they lack nuevo's analytical framework,
and laughing at the fact they're not dancing the fad-du-jour move, I'd call them to task as well.

> This points out the lack of understanding of nuevoists.

Well, it would have been good to actually define the terms you were using, if you wanted
to avoid confusion about what we thought you meant with "connection". Yes, I confess:
I do not have divinatory powers. Obviously, that means that despite not seeing myself
as a dedicated "nuevo" dancer (I was dancing well before "nuevo" became a lightning
rod), I am one.

> The connection we are talking about is the emotional connection between partners 
 > and the shared connection with the music, both of which emanate from the embrace,
 > not the physical connection per se.

That doesn't change the point one bit - what Brian and I wrote applies just as well to
that type of connection. Perhaps you can't fathom someone dancing nuevo who has that type
of connection or dances to music, but that's simply lack of imagination (and a lack of
curiosity: I haven't seen you ask *how* that would work, simply imply that it doesn't).

Perhaps that's because you are cursed with a particularly egregious local community of
"nuevo" idiots, but even then, that doesn't allow you to generalise in any logically
valid way.

There's also nothing special about the "nuevo" connection, except typically (in uncrowded
dance floors) more room. The Big Divide in the types of connections are those between
a connection with shared axis and a connection with a frame but two independent axes
(which can be danced with a very close embrace as well). And traditional dancers
use both.

> This vertical span allows elevation of the feet high off the floor ("to the ceiling").

"To the ceiling" was meant to allow the rest of the body some room. But thanks for the straw man.

> Great for exhibition, not for social dancing. Instead try one square meter within 10 cm of the floor.

I assume that means that traditional social dancers are all shorter than 10cm, or are all thinner than
10cm, lying on the floor huddled in a fetal position?

> Tango is a feeling that is danced (shared), not movement that is danced (shared). 
 > Perhaps this nuevo is another dance.
> 
Perhaps you don't have a willingness to understand anything but your own world view (what a smug reply!)

I thought we were having a productive argument, but your last reply is simply nothing but empty
name calling and attempts at painting something in a negative light in the most unreasonable ways
possible, and a consistent attempt at doing nothing but polarising the debate.

In other words, it's no longer *reasoned* debate.