[Tango-L] Gricel - Fights at the milongas

[Shahrukh Merchant]

Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> My own experience is the same as Debby's, I do not remember ever seeing a fight at a milonga in my entire life.

I've actually seen one (but only one). It was between a regular 
well-known dancer and teacher (whose name will be familiar to many, but 
which I shall not mention), and a younger man (also Argentine) who was 
attending milongas frequently at that time--a folkloric and tango dancer 
(and apparently a teacher)--and it was at Niño Bien.

Those who were there will remember it well from this description, since 
it is not something one easily forgets precisely because it happens so 
infrequently (it was perhaps a couple of years ago). A flurry of punches 
were thrown and one of the parties was briefly on the floor (slipped, I 
think, rather than being knocked down). No serious physical damage was 
done (it was over in seconds as they were quickly separated), but it 
created quite a stir and certainly spoiled the mood of the milonga for 
the rest of the evening. I wasn't close enough to see what happened and 
no one else seemed to have either, but I don't doubt that it got started 
by one or the other inadvertently (or intentionally?) creating a 
navigation problem (real or imagined) for the other.

> We frequently simulate bumping into each other, we do it on purpose, and then give each other dirty looks, all part of a comedy. :)) 

Yes, but as often as not, it's a real dirty look. Sometimes it's 
justified and sometimes it's not (heck, they are usually BOTH giving 
each other dirty looks, and they can't both be right as to whose fault 
it was). I've been at the receiving and giving end of these (usually at 
the same time)--it's just a little harmless muscle/testosterone flexing 
and it's forgotten seconds later.

But I cannot agree entirely with the following of Sergio's statements 
(and usually I find myself agreeing with almost *everything* that Sergio 
says!), unless they are very much narrowed in their context:

> It is extremely unusual for a couple to disturb another while dancing, unless a lot of tourists are around. 

> The quality of dancing has always been the same.
> Now the same as before, people understand that the milonga is not a place for beginners. Beginners belong in tango lessons and practicas but not in the milongas.

Taking them one at a time:

> It is extremely unusual for a couple to disturb another while dancing, unless a lot of tourists are around. 

Taken literally, I agree. But it implies that it's ONLY the tourists 
causing this. You just have to go to La Viruta to realize that it is 
not. There are a lot of young beginning Argentine dancers there, and 
many of them seem to be oblivious to the presence of anyone else on the 
dance floor. But this is more related to the second point below (and 
there are a lot of tourists around at La Viruta, so technically it's 
still a true statement, but it's not just the tourists causing it).

> The quality of dancing has always been the same.
> Now the same as before, people understand that the milonga is not a place for beginners. Beginners belong in tango lessons and practicas but not in the milongas.

Unfortunately, this is no longer true, unless you are restricting your 
observation to some traditional milongas.

There are two reasons that this has eroded:

1. Yes, the presence of tourists. First of all, there may be people who 
are intermediate or even advanced in their home community but are 
beginners in Buenos Aires milongas though they haven't realized it (at 
least as far as navigation skills are concerned). Secondly, it is an 
unreasonable expectation that a tango enthusiast who has saved his 
vacation time and money to make a for-him special trip to Buenos Aires 
is going to accept the proposition that he should stay away from the 
"mythical milongas of Shangri-la a.k.a. Buenos Aires" that he has 
specially come for because he has only reached práctica eligibility in 
his skills. Maybe it should be that way, but it's not going to happen 
even if the person in question accepts the proposition (that milongas 
are just for those who already know how to dance well at milongas). The 
best one can hope for is increased sensitivity to the importance of 
floorcraft and the more crowded conditions.

2. The reduced importance amongst younger Argentines of the Milonga 
traditions, especially those that to them seem arbitrary and/or 
restrictive. One young Argentine woman I met at TangoCool práctica a 
couple of years ago (a regular and pretty good dancer) said that she 
hates "all that nonsense of cabeceo and stuff ... it's so much better 
just to be direct and ask someone to dance!" (loose translation). (I 
disagree with her, but that's not the point.) Another example: All my 
non-Tango dancing Argentine friends have heard about La Viruta (and it 
seems about no other milonga, except possibly Confiteria Ideal). It 
seems to be well known in Buenos Aires in non-Tango circles. Many 
Argentines especially the younger ones who want to "try out" Tango will 
as often as not go to La Viruta to take their inexpensive beginners' 
class with teachers and other students in or close to their age group, 
and stay for the Milonga. The Milonga may be included in the price, they 
have a limited budget, and they're with their friends and have decided 
to make a night out of it at La Viruta. Who's going to tell them that 
well, on weekend nights La Viruta is really a Milonga and they should 
come back on Wednesday nights (or whatever is práctica night) and find 
some other way to entertain themselves? The teachers and organizers at 
La Viruta will not--they WANT people to stay and enjoy themselves and 
want to come back (and spend money on drinks and food).

Don't get me wrong: I lament the dying of many of these traditions and 
support those who wish to uphold them (and occasionally try to do so 
myself, though I've long since ceased to be dogmatic about it), but it's 
an uphill battle at best and, though I hate to say it, perhaps a losing one.

And although La Viruta is perhaps an extreme in some sense, if you 
compare it with say, Lo de Celia at the other end of the spectrum (not 
the most traditional of the traditional milongas either, but one whose 
name is perhaps more familiar to those on this list), there are still 
any number of milongas in between these two points in the spectrum that 
exhibit the same "problems" to correspondingly lesser or greater degrees.

Shahrukh