[Tango-L] The subject that never dies.

[Floyd Baker]

I'm covering points from Stephen, Chris and Michael's posts...

Chris, summarize like this.

>Unfortunately the prevalent class model greatly favours 
>instructors that tell the girls to copy a move rather than 
>teach the guys to lead it.

I would reword it to say...:

Unfortunately the prevalent instructor's method greatly favours class
models that tell the girls to copy a move rather than teach the guys
to lead it.  The instructors that cause it to happen.

It is easier that way...  It is more fun that way.  The couples think
they are learning how to Tango...  Everyone is happy...  

Everyone except for all those originating and previous era Tangueros
who are now turning over in their graves.  

Stephen..., you are right-on with holding separate lessons.  I
suggested separate ladies lessons right here, 12 or 13 years ago. It
was absolutely clear to me, immediately upon taking my very first
major workshop,  that what I was taught was wrong.  That memorized
patterns were not the way to go.  In fact there was no lead taught at
all at that class.  And the instructors were considered top of the
line. 

So now that I'm getting back to teaching, I'll be doing separate
gender lessons myself.  I have a leaders only scheduled on the 12th
and a ladies only on the 18th...  With 'neutral' taxi dancers for each
and the practicas that will follow...  I think instructors need to
consider this method.  Stop the 'mechanization' of Tango.  

I personally tell my partners that while I am using them to learn my
own moves and to train my body to do the moves, they should not think
about what I, or themselves, are doing 'pattern' wise.  But to
concentrate only on each lead as it comes.  As well as they're able to
that is...  What with the leads being unsure and likely 'mis' leads
too, as I experiment with my own body.   I know it's not easy but they
seem to get the idea...   

Actually it follows as an extention.., that if the ladies are started
in Tango right, they won't have patterns on the brain in the first
place.   So it's just a continuation then of their normally following,
lead by lead.., whether it's leader only practice or an actual
Milonga.   


Michael?  

You say in elsewhere in this thread..:

>IMO, the first thing every lady need to learn is how to make a 
>connection with the man and how to follow. But is that enough?  

Yes...

>Well it is if the lady is satisfied to just make the steps and make 
>the 'moves'.   

Should be...  That *is* the connection after all...

>On the other hand, if she wants to dance in a beautiful 
>and elegant way, and I've never met a lady who didn't, then of course 
>she must also learn HOW to make the steps and the 'moves'.

I would tell the lady if she wasn't content to dance 'connection' with
Tango then she should go do some 'beautifully elegant' ballroom....

You're flying in the face of Tango's improvisation.  No need to fix
what isn't broke...

You are supporting a method that was seemingly devised to teach those
who could not grasp following each led step, without it being part of
a recognizable pattern...  Turning it into mechanized Tango...


Take care...   Thanks for thinking about it...

Floyd




On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:07:40 -0500, you wrote:

>Floyd (Buffalo) wrote:
>>>imho the lady has no moves at all to learn.
>
>Chris (UK) responded:
>>True in real dancing, but a class with guys that haven't learned the 
>>moves, she does have to 'learn' them, else in practice they won't get 
>>done. Unfortunately the prevalent class model greatly favours instructors 
>
>>that tell the girls to copy a move rather than teach the guys to lead it.
>
>Taken to an extreme, this seems to suggest a model in which the 
>instruction for the men and women is conducted in separate groups--with 
>the women learning to follow and the men learning the moves and how to 
>lead the moves.  For mixed group classes, generalized leading and 
>following skills might be taught.  Anything else runs the risk of women 
>learning the follower's part (which is not the same as learning to follow) 
>men learning the leader's part (which is not the same as the men learning 
>the moves and how to lead them).  Group classes conducted this way often 
>rely heavily on memorized patterns with followers and leaders being taught 
>their respective moves.  In my opinion, it would be better for the leaders 
>to learn the follower's moves.  Then at least they would know what they 
>were expected to lead.
>
>With best regards,
>Steve (de Tejas)
>
>
>
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