[Tango-L] The subject that never dies.

[Floyd Baker]

Keith...  

I said the (auto) cross was contrary to Tango.   I've no problems with
how to lead one if it is to be led.   The problem is that the lady
often does a cross on her own.    Actually it's not *really* a problem
cause I expect them to...   I live with it.    But I  do slip in side
steps or other measure when I want to insure the lady does not cross.,
and I don't want to tell her not to.    Still, that's the need that
shouldn't be.., Tango wise.., no matter how nicely it's done.

When I do lead one, it's  with a clockwise torso jog.   I dont like
turning to the left which causes the follower to have to catch her
balance to cross.  To me it seems unecessarily disruptive to an
otherwise peaceful walk.    Those who do it I'm sure will say it's not
a problem.   It's no doubt just a perception on my part.., but the
followers all seem to know my way too.., so I'll keep it.   

Or maybe they'd all do it anyway.., without my lead...   :-)

To me there's still another factor that makes the cross a 'convention'
contrary to Tango.  And not just the 'auto' part...   It's taught to
be done only when partners are outside right.   Never, as one would
expect in a truly improve dance, to be ok on either side.  


And as you say..., there are times when the lady may think she should
cross when she doesn't get the right lead 'not to'?  That sure sounds
'auto' and contrary to Tango to me.

Then there's the line from another post...

>Unless she is a very basic beginner in the first month or
>so - and has just learned the cross. 

This doesn't sit very well either...   I know it's done of course..,
but when you come right down to it.., *why* is it done?  

The lady does not need to 'learn the cross' if she is never to cross
by herself.., automatically.    Was it said in the same sense as her
needing to be taught all the moves she needs to know?    

Of course I'm hoping you don't say yes.., cause imho the lady has no
moves at all to learn.    Just single steps...

So why  not teach followers the leads to follow instead of the 'move'
being led?  With the style that one moves in Tango, the cross will
then be able to happen by itself.., and only when led.   She doesn't
have to 'learn' it as such.  

Same with barrida, displacements, and similar single step moves... The
women doesn't need to *learn* them...  They should have no effect on
her normal 1 of 3 steps.   It is the leader's job to have his own two
feet in place and, with the right timing, work to pull off any of
these moves by himself.   The lady just keeps walking...  Nothing
really different happened  to her, did it?  A barrida is simply a
leader's embellishment and done entirely by the leader alone.  

Even the volcada, a single exagerated step cross.   If the lady is
over being surprized by tilts and other pheripheral distractions.., it
hardly seems necessary to ever 'teach' her that move either.    

Oh well.   I'm sure the cross will keep being taught, and done.., one
way or another.   :-) 

Cheers...

Floyd









On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:04:25 -0400, you wrote:

>Floyd,
>
>I don't understand this. Just this weekend, I was teaching a group the 
>right-side walk in crossed feet. 1. Man LF side, 2. RF close and 3. LF fwd 
>outside partner. The lady does 1. RF side, 2. LF close without weight, 
>and 3. LF back. If, on 4. I then walk straight forward my RF will be in line 
>with the ladies RF and we can continue with 5. LF fwd and to walk for as 
>long as we want. However, if on 4. or any other RF fwd step, I step 
>forward with my RF in front of my LF, I will lead the lady to the cross 
>and transfer weight on 5. 
>
>There should be nothing automatic about the cross. The man leads the 
>lady to cross when he wants her to cross. The problem arises when the 
>man gives mixed signals such as leaving her space for the cross but then 
>not giving a definite lead to the cross. She might then be unsure about 
>whether to cross or not. Depending on her training and experience in 
>that situation some ladies will cross while others won't. If she chooses 
>the option the man didn't intend, it's the man's fault, as always :-).
>
>Keith, HK
>
> On Fri Mar 28 23:52 , Floyd Baker  sent:
>
>  The 'auto' cross therefore flys in the face
>>of the most fundamental Tango rule.., that every step be led.    
>>
>>Not only does the lady do the cross on her own.., under circumstances
>>she has been taught to 'remember' as the time to do it.., which goes
>>against another basic tango concept..., it is also an un-led weight
>>change...  ??  
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tango-L mailing list
>Tango-L at mit.edu
>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l

     Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango
     * * * * * *  www.buffalotango.com  * * * * * *