[Tango-L] Who's leading?

Fri Sep 21 13:30:39 EDT 2007

Wow, nice going, Keith.

In the process of advising Fortune that she might have made too many
assumptions and some of them might be wrong, you proceed to make a
host of assumptions and projections about her that extrapolate based
on a single piece of information you know.

And then you finish with an implied personal insult.

You make sure everyone knows you are being sarcastic when you say "3
weeks of classes and you already know what you need from the lead.
Wow, that's impressive.", but it is - it is impressive.

I also do not like your dripping condescension. Are we in high school
again (or on the pre-school playground)? Did you forget that you were
once a beginner? I don't remember seeing you here being vulnerable and
honest with how far you have progressed with tango writing in the big
bad boys forum of Tango-L.. Who says only the know-it-mosts can write
here and expect respect? Whatever happened to being welcoming and
helpful without kicking someone in the face for good morning?

Fortune will probably be able to sift through the mud and extract a
few bits of good advice from your posting, but it does not have to be
done this way. Just my opinion, of course. Please feel free to express
the real you. God forbid someone restrict your right to free
condescension and insult-wielding.

With best regards,

Konstantin
Victoria, Canada

On 9/20/07, Keith <keith at tangohk.com> wrote:
> Fortune,
>
> Since you're already expecting flames, please let me be the first.
>
> 3 weeks of classes and you already know what you need from the lead.
> Wow, that's impressive.
>
> Might I suggest that you concentrate on what you need to learn as a
> follow before you start telling your leads what they should be doing.
>
> What you say happens to be correct but I suspect it's what you've been
> told rather than what you actually know from experience. Excluding your
> teacher I doubt if you can recognise a good leader from one of the many
> morons who manhandle the beginner girls around the floor. The worst
> dancer here can impress beginners. But after 3 months, they'll never
> dance with him again.
>
> Finally, please don't judge all the leads by comparison with how
> well your teacher leads you. Otherwise you'll be in for a world of
> disappointments and you may end up not dancing with anybody. You're a
> beginner - expect to dance with beginners and don't think too much of
> yourself.
>
> And, IMHO, a beginner of 3 weeks who closes her eyes just looks stupid.
>
> Keith, HK
>
> On Fri Sep 21  1:18 , "fortune elkins"  sent:
>
> >As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
> >me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
> >where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
> >lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
> >listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
> >signals.
> >
> >But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
> >dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
> >refuge from political correctness.
> >
> >This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
> >that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
> >with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
> >with!
> >
> >On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
> >  Keith keith at tangohk.com> wrote:
> >> Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a
> >>woman.
> >>
> >> Guy sounds like a dufus.
> >>
> >> Keith, HK
> >>
> >> On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky  sent:
> >>
> >>>If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
> >>>would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
> >>>
> >>>Language holds power.  Never underestimate the power of seduction
> >>>(salesmanship, persuasion).  This is an example of a failed sales
> >>>attempt.  The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
> >>>sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
> >>>did not want to be a woman with him.
> >>>
> >>>Nina
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
> >>>>
> >>>>   MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
> >>>>   WOMAN: Not as a woman.
> >>>>   MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Igor Polk ipolk at virtuar.com> wrote:
> >>>>   A woman.
> >>>>
> >>>>
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