[Tango-L] In the land of the blind, the one-eyed..etc.

[Tom Stermitz]

Barbara, I'm pretty sure you misunderstood or misrepresent Daniel.

Maybe he said something and maybe you heard something, but it doesn't  
make sense that Daniel would claim milonguero to be "the only true  
form of social tango" for several reasons:

(1) Daniel teaches social tango, but nobody would ever call him a  
Milonguero Style teacher or dancer. I HAVE seen him teach milonguero  
style (like Susana or Tete), but only occasionally in more advanced  
classes. Daniel almost always taught and presented social tango as an  
improvisational,  dance with pivoting ochos and grapevines, an  
approach that owes more to the "salon" tradition in general rather  
than the "milonguero" one in specific. He had many inspirations, but I  
always felt his analysis or teaching methodology owed most to Gustavo  
and Mingo circa 1995.

(2) In 1994 in the US, 90% of tango was done in a wide-open embrace  
full of ganchos and big boleos. This was not at all typical or  
authentic for Buenos Aires milongas. So, if Daniel was claiming that  
social tango in Buenos Aires was more typically done in close-embrace,  
that is quite easily understood as his attempt to contrast the weird  
fantasy imitation done in the US with the way tango was actually  
danced in Buenos Aires.

(3) Maybe someone says something hyperbolic, or exaggerates for  
impact, or maybe one comment is taken out of context. But, it is a  
dishonest argument to find one technical point and then claim you have  
the true insight into what they believe. It's like the courtroom  
lawyer trying to catch the witness in a little slip-up.


Strawman Argument:

For the hundredth time, AUTHENTICITY IS ABOUT FEEL AND MUSICALITY, NOT  
STYLE.

There is something called authenticity; otherwise where would you get  
astonished comments like "You don't dance like a foreigner", or "Wait  
a minute, where did you learn?", or "You mean they dance like that in  
the US?"

It makes me wonder: how does a foreigner dance?

The really curious thing is that you frequently hear the claim on  
Tango-L that "some people say milonguero is the only authentic tango"  
from people who dislike milonguero, and are trying to build up a  
strawman. You rarely (if ever?) hear milonguero style proponents claim  
authenticity for only one style.

First, it is just stupid.

Go to Buenos Aires. Go to the social milongas. Observe what you see.  
There are many styles common on the social dance floors. What milongas  
are there where the everybody is in a wide-open embrace, doing loads  
of ganchos and big boleos.

I guess you could actually say that typical, authentic social dancing  
in Buenos Aires is done in a close embrace, but all the salon (social)  
styles are very close compared with 1995 US tango dancing.




On Nov 19, 2007, at 10:28 AM, Barbara Garvey wrote:

> Thank you Charles for pointing out once again (as I have been doing  
> for
> over a decade on this very List)
> the legendary nature of tango history.
>
>>>>>> Some "milongueros" even stopped dancing completely for many  
>>>>>> years but
> as tango became newly popular again and potentially profitable, they
> conveniently left out that part.<<<<
> ...
> As for the origins of close embrace, Tete was, as far as I know, one  
> of the first
> to teach the style, in 1993 or 4, under the auspices of Susana  
> Miller. In 1994
> Daniel Trenner told me all about him, her and milonguero style as  
> the only true
> form of social tango. He then began to propagate this myth at  
> Stanford Tango Week.
>
> In 1987, and probably for decades or a century previous, a very  
> simple form of
> close embrace was prevalent in the center of town, but not in other  
> barrios.
> Of course I only know what I have experienced, much of which may not  
> be true
> even as experience. That is the nature of tango.
> ...
> Barbara in Puerto Vallarta