[Tango-L] Women's technique: obliques

Sun Jul 22 17:28:29 EDT 2007

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the posting.  To be honest, I've put this topic
on the back burner until I can check with the local gurus,
who have been unavailable to me.  I'll look into your
analysis more.  But here are a few things.

> 1) Extracting a quote out of its context, especially
> when it is but an example, makes it sound like
> gobbledygook; but even from this quote, it is evident
> she is talking about turning the shoulders: be your
> ouwn guinea-pig & try it for yourself. If you only
> turn the shoulders, keeping the chest immobile, you
> will not feel any tension below it, only around the
> back of the upper spine. Now try turning the ribcage
> as well and you will feel contractions of the
> abdominals.

I don’t believe she is talking about only turning the
shoulders.  She uses this example in a discussion about
torso muscles, not about the arm structure.  Your example
is more about arm structure movement, not torso rotation. 

> 2) The paragraph you have taken the quote from makes
> it clear that she is only discussing "rotation
> provided by extensor muscles" i.e. muscles at the back
> of the spine. The abdominals are flexor muscles. The
> previous, as well as the following paragraph
> specifically mention the obliques involved in rotation
> of the spine; furthermore, the table [10.1 Muscles of
> the torso] on the following page lists both obliques
> as being involved in rotation [well, I've got the
> second [1996] edition].

She mentions the abdominals in an example about a
left-twisting sit-up, which we don’t do in tango.  So I
found that example is to be too muddy to be used in a
discussion about ochos.  Konstantin’s argument about
obliques being the prime mover of rotation is what I
consider to be the point of discussion.  She also makes a
point of movement always starting from the center of the
body (more on that later).

> 3) The obliques, being further away from the axis are
> much more instrumental in the rotation of the trunk
> that the erector muscles, which are much closer to the
> spine, and therefore need more effort. The extensors
> work on the Class 1 lever principle, where the
> resistance arm is longer than the effort arm,
> requiring therefore much effort to achieve very little
> [as in rotating the shoulders only]. The flexors, on
> the other hand are basically Class 2 levers, with the
> resistance close to the axis [fulcrum], requiring
> therefore much less effort.
> [See Kinesiology, Lutgens & Hamilton, 1997, Brown &
> Benchmark, or
>
http://www.spinalfitness.com/Demo/123%20effective%20lever%20arm%20course.pdf]

Thanks for the source.  I’ll look more into that.

> 4) The rotation takes place in the thoracic & cervical
> spine, not the lumbar part, due to the shape of the
> articulating facets of the lumbar vertebrae [Fitt,
> p67, or any basic anatomy handbook].

On that same page, she also says that other experts believe
otherwise, though such rotational movement is probably
minimal.  Our position is that in walking, the point of
where the thoracic and lumbar join is the joint where
rotation for walking should occurs for maximum efficiency.

But the big question is how does any of this relate to
teaching tango?  I believe this aspect of rotation got
started when Sean talked about movement coming from joints.
 There are a few reasons why we prefer to talk about bone
structure/joints than muscle structure in class, such as:

1.  Most people can’t actually feel what muscle they are
using anyway.   Tell someone to contract their obliques,
and they’ll probably end up contracting something else. 
However, having them focus on a bone and the joint allows
their brain to figure out on its own which muscles to use. 

2.  Even with people who know something about their
superficial muscles, such as the obliques, they may use
them in such a way that inhibits their deeper muscles to
move freely (more below).

3.  Bones can be felt with endpoints (joints) more easily
than muscles and muscle attachments.   It’s much easier to
show the rotation of the spine and actually see the
movement of the vertebraes than it is to show the
contraction of the obliques.  For the spine, I just need to
wear a fitted shirt, pull up my hair, and walk around so
folks can watch my back.  But I am not going to lift up my
shirt to show how I contract my obliques.  Even if I did, I
wouldn’t have much muscle definition to show anything,
anyway.

4.  Muscles, as Konstantin pointed out, only contract and
cannot stretch itself.  Yet we feel a stretch when we
dance, right?  We tell people to stretch this or stretch
that.  But when we stretch, we are obviously contracting a
muscle somewhere.  Figuring out what muscle to contract so
that another muscle can stretch is simply too
mind-boggling.  If people do contract a muscle, they often
have a difficult time releasing it.

In our work, we focus on REMOVING INHIBITORS to movement
instead of trying to force a movement.  We believe that it
is these inhibitors that make tango harder than it should
be to the average person.  The most common inhibitor is
tension in the superficial muscles (biceps, deltoids,
obliques, etc).  When these are not fully relaxed, they
limit the range of motion of deeper muscles and, thus,
limit the range of motion of the joints.  They act as
“containers” instead of “expanders”.  In working with
people, we’ve found that the first thing they need to learn
is how to recognize tension and release their superficial
muscles.  An example is when a beginner first learns the
lapis, he usually tilts because he hasn’t learned to
separate his leg from his pelvis (his muscles aren’t
relaxed).

The latter method ends us creating stiff movements and
tension.  Ours is a longer term method but has worked
effectively in producing good dancers.  We also have a
movement expert that works hands-on with people.  It also
has the benefit of producing a positive learning
environment without the pressure to learn the hottest new
step.  Instead, dancers focus on what feels good and
compassion for other dancers.  It’s groovy, man. :)

Trini de Pittsburgh

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