[Tango-L] Flaming women at classes

[Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com)]

Hi Trini,

Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote:
> The reality is that if a beginning woman goes to a milonga
> or a practica on a fairly regular basis, she's likely to be
> lead into stuff like boleos or ganchos or paradas before
> she is even taught those elements in class.
Based on some of the class teaching I've seen, this is probably a very 
good thing. Provided the man actually knows how to lead her (which is 
the cornerstone of Chris' argument, which his opponents continue to 
overlook). But if he does know how to lead, he can probably tell that 
those things are uncalled for with a beginner.

Moreover, I know fine tango dancers who were never taught these things 
in any class. I know many, many more who have been taught them ten 
times, and who still can't get them right.
> If a woman only dances with good leaders, then anticipation is less likely to happen.
>   
This is a virtual quotation of Chris' argument, isn't it?
> But let's get real. A beginning woman cannot tell a good
> leader from a bad leader as readily as an experienced
> dancer can.
I see this point refuted nearly every day. Women of any level, like men 
of any level, can tell when it's working and when it's not, and you know 
that as well as I do. Beginners are constantly lamenting the 
difficulties of working with each other in beginner-level classes.
> And she may try to please a mediocre leader more than a good leader.
And that's because a good leader will likely be pleasing her. With a 
mediocre leader, my bet is that she's trying to pacify him, or else not 
fall down.
> Beginners are easily impressed.
>   
I suspect the opposite.

We self-important tango assholes like to believe that so many people 
don't come back for a second lesson, or second month, because they're 
intimidated, or had a boo-hoo time, or some BS like that. And that's 
pure condescension on our part. Chances are, they just Weren't impressed.

What I see you doing here is mainly turning a blind eye to the validity 
of Chris' points, in order to defend "realities" which are unfortunate 
in the first place. If the men were generally better, I don't think we'd 
even be talking about this.

Therefore, improve the damn men.

Jake
DC