[Tango-L] World Class tango dancers....

Tue Jul 17 20:33:45 EDT 2007

But... our American arrogance is very meek - what arrogance it is to 
give all the glory to the Argentines?!

At 06:20 PM 7/17/2007, Clif Davis wrote:

>Ummmm, let me see how I can reply to this.... ... B.... S....
>I can't remember where I have seen more arrogance than on this list.
>And people say people from the US are arrogant. We have a long way to go to
>catch up with this steaming pile.
>
>Oops, sorry, was that arrogant?
>CAD3
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tango-l-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of
>Nina Pesochinsky
>Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:15 PM
>To: tango-l at mit.edu
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] World Class tango dancers....
>
>Deby,
>
>I just want to clarify that we are not talking about the same
>things.  You are talking about Brazil, Mexico, San Francisco, i.e.
>places that belong to the world.
>
>I am talking about the world of Argentine tango.  The world of
>Argentine tango begins and ends in Argentina.  If it exits, it
>becomes some other world, like the geographic world.  The geographic
>world-class is too low of a standard of dancing.  The Argentine
>world-class is the real thing.
>
>So, in terms of the world-class dancer, with the world beginning and
>ending in Argentina, no other geographic place can produce one.
>
>So one can go to Argentina, into the world of tango that is, and try
>to become a world-class dancer there even if they were not born
>Argentine.  And it still will not happen because of that tiny blemish
>of the wrong origin.
>
>The bottom line is that in order to be considered a true world-class
>dancer, one must be hailed to be so by the Argentines
>themselves.  And if you are not Argneitne, that will never
>happen.  Argentines are fanatical nationalists.
>
>Warmest regards,
>
>Nina
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 05:38 PM 7/17/2007, Deby Novitz wrote:
> >Nino wrote:
> >
> >If you are not Argentine, you cannot be a world-class tango
> >dancer and might as well forget about it because the world of tango,
> >with all the "classy" dancing,  begins and ends in Argentina.:)  This
> >is an absolute.
> >
> >
> >Well Nina, you might want to rethink what you have written.  Junior
> >Cervila,  he is in my opinion an excellent dancer and
> >from..........Brasil.  The same for Paulo Araujo.  In NYC there is Angel
> >Clemente Garcia, one of the best ..... and a Mexican.  There are people
> >from other places as well that are wonderful dancers.
> >
> >I have been dragged and pushed around the floor like a dust mop by
> >several Argentine name brands who without a choreographed dance could
> >not lead their way out of a dark cave with 1000 lit torches.  There are
> >many Argentines who cannot dance gracefully or elegantly.  Sometimes I
> >watch them and I cannot for the life of me figure out what people think
> >is so great about them other than they speak English, charge lots of
> >money, and are arrogant, therefore, they must be good.
> >
> >Now another myth....there are not a million wonder dancers here.  It is
> >all relative.  When I came here in 2000 I thought each and everyone of
> >them was wonderful, incredible.  I marveled at what I thought was
> >dancing to the music.  Now I live and dance here and I can tell you,
> >that here is no better here than there.  (Wherever there is) There are
> >maybe less than 10 men I want to dance with.  Here is the
> >difference...we have more dancers, more places to dance.  So it might
> >seem like there are lots more good dancers.  It is all relative.  If you
> >live in Iowa then San Francisco seems like Mecca.  I lived in San
> >Francisco and as I commuted to Buenos Aires, San Francisco did not seem
> >much like Mecca to me.  The percentages of good dancers "should" be
> >higher when there are more dancers....because there are more dancers.
> >
> >Dancing with bad dancers.  I don't do it.  Not knowingly.  The best
> >dancers here male and female sit until they want to dance.  When the
> >music is right, when there is someone to dance with.  Once this
> >gentleman I know came into the milonga. He came to get me to dance to a
> >tanda.  He told me that I was going to be his only tanda of the evening
> >and then he was going to leave.  His reason was the women left him
> >uninspired.  Maybe this sounds harsh, but this is not unusual here.  One
> >night we went to 3 milongas because we as women were uninspired.  We
> >were trying to find out where the men were to dance with.  We ended up
> >drinking champagne in Gricel.
> >
> >What happens when I accept a dance with a man who is not that good.    I
> >dance with him if he is a nice guy.  It is not his fault we both made a
> >mistake.  If he is completely undanceable, at least for me.  I have no
> >choice but to end the dance.  To walk off the floor here is an insult to
> >one of the parties.  Usually it is a verguenza for the man, not me.
> >Here you need to earn the right to walk off the floor.  I can do it, but
> >I do not like to.  Not unless the man is a total jerk, or he is hurting
> >me with his horrible dancing.  How do I dance with them?  I concentrate
> >very hard on my balance and axis to stay upright, and many times I have
> >to look at the floor because there is no lead.  Even more so I do not
> >dance close embrace if the dancer is really poor.  Then I would really
> >be dragged around.  If the man is from the U.S. and used to dancing
> >patterns, I have to watch his feet.  I no longer live in the U.S. and
> >therefore do not know what patterns are now being taught, so I have to
> >figure out the steps before they happen.
> >
> >The point is that tango is tango.
> >
> >
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>
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