[Tango-L] How to Tango

[Floyd Baker]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 05:00:41 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Floyd,
>
>I think we are talking about two different types of
>leaders.  I was referring to the leader that motivates
>people by example.  The one that can exist without a title.

I don't have a title.    Yet I exist...    

Actually I don't consider myself a 'leader' in this case anyway. 

> I think you're thinking of the titular one - one that
>exists because he/she has the finances, has the title, has
>whatever that give him/her some control.  It is the
>difference between a Martin Luther King and a George Bush. 
>The fact that you defined your community by its size
>(number of email address and workshops) rather than by it's
>quality is telling.  There are lots of large communities
>that are just awful.

You seem to be hung up on the term 'leader'...   Is that what you
consider yourself?    I don't have that opinion of myself at all...  I
am a promotor, an organizer, a do gooder, for the sake of things I
like and want to see more of.., for my own benefit mostly.  Tango is
my hobby.  As with stamp collectors who have to buy the stamps, I am
ok with spending money on my hobby too...  I've put a lot of time and
energy into other things as well...  Twenty years attempting to
restore a 215 ft historic steam ship.   I've worked at food co-ops,
and several other volunteer type things.   No pay ever...  Just for
fun, experience and to see things that I think would be nice to have
more of... 

I have been several 'leaders' actually.   You'd be surprized...    I
was elected to these offices because people knew I was able to get
things done..

Besides quoting facts.., I did ask why you think we do not have the
nice qualities you mentioned.  I'll ask again...    It is my way of
saying you are assuming we do not.   But in fact, we do all right in
those areas too..  If I need to say so.  

I'm not really looking for a personality profile here.  What's the
point of it and where are you trying to go with it?   I'm happy with
myself and what I do.   It seems others are too because we have had
tremendous Tango growth in this area over the last 18 months.  Btw, it
is not just  me doing it now either.  It has started to spread out and
be taken on by others too.  That's very cool...  I can lay back a
little.   

>And to use Daniel Trenner's name in the same page that
>you're saying you want people to be opinionated?  I think
>he would be insulted since that goes against what he
>teaches.    He deserves better treatment.  You might ask him
>to review your webpage.

Come on now.   First of all, the two paragraphs were entirely
different contexts...  No relation or connection in any way...   So
your use of 'same page' is ambiguous.   

Beyond that, Daniel and I,  with Anne Sophie included, all got along
famously the two days they spent with Carol and I.   You wouldn't
believe how well.    He and I agreed on most everything...  Basically
he was my first instructor many years ago and I consider that I bonded
to him...  His thinking and style.   He being my first view of Tango.
I have no idea what you mean by my going against his way of teaching.
I teach very much like he does.    And he certainly does have his
opinions too.   Some developed more recently that we got into then..
To not have opinions is to be wishy-washy...   

>The overall impression I have from your responses (both
>private and public) 

They were one and the same.   One copy to you and one to the L.  

>is that you are not really interested in changing anything.  

Not true...   I am in the process of following up on suggestions. Some
already done.

>That you are more interested in hearing confirmation of your 
>ideas rather than learning from 

>good critical feedback.  

That's an oxymoron...  :-)  

But still, I do listen to what people say.   

>You said it yourself - you're opinionated.  You've a right to your 
>opinions.  So why bother to ask anyone on this list for feedback?  
>Compare how you've answered with how Jeff responded to feedback 
>on his waltz.  See a difference?

Isn't gaining information, advice, and ideas how one forms their
opinions..?   How do you come to like or want one thing or another?
One learns from various inputs and then decides or 'opinionates' which
feel best  overall.    

As for responding?  I respond in kind.

>I only read the first page of your website (what tango is
>not) and debated on whether it was even worth responding to
>given your resistance to the simple idea that your webpage
>was hard to read.  (I think it took 3 posts until you
>finally acknowledged that maybe you should fix this.)  

This is a waste of quality time, but I'll explain again.. 

Outputting a web page and having your design appear exactly as
intended in all the various browsers of the world,  with their
individual features, user selected options, etc. is a virtual
impossibility.   One does not make immediate changes to suit a couple
of complaints, which will more than likely cause just as many or more
from those previously good.   I simply waited for more of a consensus
on what was wrong,  to gain an idea of what should be done about it
Since some individuals even refused to enlarge their text size to see
what helped, I didn't especially need to consider them either... 

>I can tell you that your some of your opinions are based on
>misunderstood myths.  

Is that your opinion?  
 
What 'myths' are you referring to?  

>That it discourages women from studying.   

I see that...   But others will.

>That the reasons some customs took place might be right for the 
>time but may no longer valid in today's culture.  It's funny that you 
>acknowledge that you have little contact with experienced AT people, 
>but it's okay for you to be opinionated.  Hmm.

Hmm.  I had little ability to 'dance' it...   Not a real problem now. 
Because you know, for instance, Freud didn't have much contact with
othes in the field either, when he came to understand the concepts and
principals of psychology.     
  
>Your aim is admirable, but the execution of what I have
>read is not.  You've asked for help with communicating
>ideas.  My suggestion is for you to explain your ideas to
>someone else and have them write your webpage instead. 
>Your purposes might then be served.
>
>Happy community-building to all,
>Trini de Pittsburgh

My purpose is being served.    I am learning many things... 

Floyd



     Argentine Tango - Buffalo Tango - Sun Tango 
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