[Tango-L] types of valses?

[Tango Tango]

Check out the great Musette artists like Gus Viseur, Tony Murena, Emile
Vacher and Menard Ferrero from the mid-20 to the late 30s. They play Valse,
Valse-Boston, Java and Mazurka all with accent on the first.

Racheras come in 2/4 3/4 and 4/4. I have recordings of 4/4 songs that are
designated by the artist as 'Vals-Ranchera'. The score is very different
from a Ranchera-Bolero with the bajo-sexto being very syncopated, something
that could explain why they call it a waltz.

The artists are not always the most meticulous when it comes to analysing
what they do. -Thank god.

Neil


On 2/22/07, anfractuoso anfractuoso <anfractuoso at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you for your reply, very interesting.
>
> However I see now that maybe I should have made it clear that I don't
> really have a problem identifying vals rhythm patterns. What I label
> as a 'vals'  commonly is written in 3/4 and has an accent only on the
> first quarter note in each measure.
>
> My question was about the actual features of a vals musical form that
> are different between the different designations of vals. Time
> signature is the most basic, as is rhythm pattern and tempo (these
> three would likely be the same for all vals subclasses); others could
> be characteristic legati or staccati of a particular instrument, or a
> particular shape and time flow of a musical phrase, or a
> characteristic beginning and/or ending, etc. etc. My other question
> was how many different vals designations do you guys know or have
> heard of?
>
> It might have been better to start with an example. The superstar of a
> tango vals called "Desde El Alma" is given as a 'Vals Boston' - anyone
> know why? What makes it so?
>
> I don't know what Java and Redova are, but mazurka does not have a
> vals rhythm pattern despite having a 3/4 time signature because the
> accent there is either on the second or third quarter note in a
> measure.
>
> Rancheras also are not really valses as they have what feels like all
> three quarter notes accentuated and are much slower. In my opinion
> anyway.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> On 2/22/07, Tango Tango <tangotangotango at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Most people would not consider a Boston to be part of tango and the
> > Waldteufel-waltzes Canaro recorded are really a novelty. I've never
> heard
> > them played at a milonga. Rodriguez recorded EVERYTHING, so he does not
> > represent a straight lineage of tango.
> >
> > To the Vals and Vals-Boston, you can add Mazurka, Java and Redova. All
> are
> > 3/4.
> >
> > I have some Vals-Rancheras that are 3/4 and some that are 4/4 (so then
> is it
> > still a waltz or is it a bolero?) Some switch between 3/4 and 4/4.
> >
> > The answer to your question is: You know it when you hear it.
> >
> > -Kinda like the difference between contemporary zydeco and contemporary
> > cajun. You can't define it in terms of instrumentation or score but you
> hear
> > the difference immediately.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > On 2/22/07, anfractuoso anfractuoso <anfractuoso at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everybody,
> > >
> > > I hope there is some interest in this, more musical, type of a
> question. I
> > > did try to search the archives on this subject but could not find
> anything
> > > useful.
> > >
> > > How many types (sub-classes) of vals exist in tango and how do they
> differ
> > > from each other?
> > >
> > > For example, there is "vals boston". What is it in terms of what is
> > > different from a regular vals?
> > >
> > > Some other are more obvious - e.g. "vals viennese" (my designation) is
> a
> > > tango vals that emulates a viennese waltz in certain characteristic
> > > features. Examples exist by the Canaro and Rodriguez orchestras.
> > >
> > > I am interested in real sub-classes of vals that one can identify
> based on
> > > systematic features, and I am also interested in the different
> sub-classes
> > > as labelled on sheet music. What I mean by this distinction is that
> > > sometimes the sheet music labels do not mean anything different,
> sometimes
> > > they do.
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