[Tango-L] Direction: Step descriptors.No Neither step.

[Huck Kennedy]

Martin Nussbaum writes:
> Jake, what you are calling a "neither" step, ie a straight back step for
> leader in "normal" (parallel)leader steps back with right, follower steps
> forward with left, or leader steps back with left and follower matches with
> forward step with right and vice versa, is an open step, for both, under
> Gustavo/Chicho/Fabian system, (GCF ? )

     That's three votes, counting Brian!

Jake Spatz writes:

> 2. The "salida"
> Yes, you're using the Spanish term more correctly. I'm using it to mean 
> 8-count basic,

     Okay, that's what I thought.

> which I take to be entirely in parallel system,

     Well the so-called "right basic" is, but the
so-called "left basic" switches back and forth
between the parallel and crossed.

> and will henceforth switch to the abbreviation 8CB or "basic 8"
> when referring to that particular thing.

     Many thanks!

> 3. "Open steps"
> Well, if I have to stop, pivot, and alter the position, then what the 
> hell kind of system is that? And what does it call those moves? And is 
> this where that moronic two-foot colgada came from?

     No, maybe I didn't make myself clear enough--the
stopping and pivoting isn't for real-life dancing--it's
just a test you can interrupt yourself with to do during
analysis in a practica to help you determine if you just
took an open step or a closed step.

> An "open" step should be one that brings one or both dancers into a 
> position that is clearly described by the word "open." If my partner is 
> directly in front of me, and walks directly at me while I walk directly 
> backward, and we're in parallel system, then we're already facing each 
> other. (8CB #1, to put it simply.)

     As a brief aside, thanks for calling it the 8CB,
and now thanks for finally clearing up in my mind
your numbering system.  While most Argentines I've met
who actually teach the 8CB do number the steps that way,
many teachers don't.

> If I pause the step mid-weight-shift, 
> then we have to do a colgada in order to "face each other," as that 
> analysis would have it. Sure, _then_ it looks like an "open step" all 
> right, but it's not the step we took, and we had to do all these extra 
> moves to get there.

     You've lost me.  Let me just say that for your
Step #1 of the 8CB, it's just an open step under the
GFC system.  As Brian mentioned, any step that isn't
a crossed step defaults to being an open step, which
means that when you and your partner are directly
facing each other, your thighs are not crossed (note
that hers might be, in which case she just took
a closed step as opposed to your open).  And as for
the little test I mentioned, for Step #1 of the 8CB,
you're already facing each other, so there's no need
to pivot to face each other.  Your thighs aren't crossed,
so you just took an open step.

> This kind of analysis distorts all data until the data
> matches its cute little reductive cubby-holes.

     Well this kind of analysis is exactly what
Gustavo, Fabian, and Chicho use to explain what
they mean by an "open step" and a "crossed step."
I didn't make up that little test, they did (or
one of them did).

> And if an analysis can't tell the difference between #1 and #2 in the 
> 8CB, I'm sorry, but it's a fairly worthless analysis.
> 
> No?

     I guess you must hate topology then, which
can't tell the difference between a coffee cup
and a doughnut.   :)   I do agree with you that
you need to know a lot more than open/closed to
notate precise choreography.

     Actually, the whole GFC open/crossed thing
is very much like a topological concept, when you
think about it.  When you do the little test where
you and your partner stop for a moment and pivot on
both feet to directly face each other to see if
your thighs are open or crossed, that is very much
like topological deformation.

     Now for some fun:  Let's try on some theorems
for size!

     Theorem #1:  If you're in the parallel system
and both you and your partner take a step, either
you'll both be taking an open step, or you both
will be taking a closed step.  Likewise, if you're
in the crossed system and you both take a step,
one of you will be taking an open step while the
other will be taking a closed step.

Huck