[Tango-L] Milonguero style, style vs. technique

[Christopher L. Everett]

Chris, UK wrote:
> Trini wrote:
>
>   
>> dancers in earlier times ... took classes in their own barrios.
>>     
>
> Dancers in earlier times did not take classes. They learnt in practicas.
>   
There are multiple accounts of highly regarded professional
teachers of tango, with their own studios, during the Guardia
Vieja and Golden Age periods.

So this isn't precisely true.
> Tango classes - and teachers - are merely a recent invention. As Christine 
> Denniston wrote on the subject of learning in the Golden Age v. today:
>
>  there was no such thing as a Tango teacher and no such thing as a
>  beginners' Tango class before the Tango revival began in the mid 1980s.
>
> Full article at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tango-uk/message/3850 .
>   
I am prepared to concede that your average dancer back in the
day didn't take formal group classes.  Instead, he got private
lessons (for free) from more advanced dancers. 

If you want to go that route, let's also recognize that the state
of the dance isn't what it used to be.  There is simply no way
that I would allow 95% of the people out there to have verbal
input into my dance.  That would include people who are
taking money for teaching tango as well.

However, there is a select group of people who understand
the difference between style and technique in modern tango,
who dance as they teach, who understand how steps have to
change for specific bodies, and know how to communicate
what they teach.  My suggestion is that a one private lesson
from such a person is worth about 5 group classes, and worth
much more if you receive corrections to fundamental errors.
Often, such people aren't the best dancers in the world.

A wholesale aversion to people teaching isn't the answer,
and neither is taking 2 group classes a day from the name
brand flavors of the day.

Christopher
> Chris
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> -------- Original Message --------
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tango-L] Milonguero style, style vs. technique
> *From:* "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Tango-L <Tango-L at mit.edu>
> *Date:* Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:23:20 -0800 (PST)
>
> Nice post, Nina.
>
> Your story also matches my conversations with Susana.  At
> one point, Susana was assisting a well-known instructor,
> but realized that what was being taught wasn't occurring on
> the dance floor.  So she started exploring what was
> actually being danced in the milongas she attended.  The
> rest is history.
>
> Something people may not connect is that dancers in earlier
> times only knew a small selection of steps compared to what
> people are learning today.  People didn't travel to learn
> tango, they took classes in their own barrios.  Thus, each
> barrio had a distinct style.  Dancers became very good at
> those few steps.  This is also consistent with what Susana
> teaches.  So the vocabulary may be limited but the
> technique for combining and executing that vocabulary can
> go very deep.
>
> Susana calls me an anthropologist because I am always
> exploring different things.  She'd prefer that I stick with
> one style, but she appreciates my curiosity.  If one stays
> curious, one realizes that while some limitations are real,
> some are just a state of mind, and some are choices.
>
> What is interesting is that several of today's teachers are
> trying not to categorize their style.  Perhaps this is just
> a reaction to the fighting over the labels currently used. 
> But I think this tendency may end up losing some of the
> cultural significance and history to the tango to future
> generations of tangueros.  Time will tell.
>
> Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>
> --- Nina Pesochinsky <nina at earthnet.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hello, everyone.
>>
>> I have not been writing on Tango-L for years, but in the
>> last few 
>> weeks my curiosity has been sparked and so I decided to
>> show 
>> up.  After all, these things to mean something.
>>
>> A lot of focus of many discussions has been on the
>> "style".  I would 
>> like to offer a different perspective than what has been
>> discussed so far.
>>
>> To me, there is a clear distinction between "technique"
>> and "style".
>>
>> Technique is universal.  It wraps around the natural
>> movement of a 
>> human body.  In tango, it is not ideal because that
>> bodies are not 
>> ideal and more unique in a sense that there is no strive
>> for 
>> perfection, where everyone looks the same.  Even if a
>> dancer has 
>> limited mobility, such as due to arthritis, injuries,
>> etc., a proper 
>> technique can accommodate this and allow a great degree
>> of freedom in 
>> movement and musical interpretation.  Technique connects
>> the person 
>> to their body in an intimate way.  Technique is
>> impersonal.  It has 
>> no purpose other than to help a dancer deliver the most
>> expressive 
>> and dynamic movement he/she can, using the natural
>> properties of the 
>> body (equilibrium, axis, flexibility strength, etc.) and
>> the forces 
>> (gravity, centripetal, centrifugal, torque, etc.). 
>> Technique is 
>> about learning the properties of the dancing body and how
>> to use them.
>>
>> An analogy is sculpting in clay.  If I know the
>> properties of the 
>> clay I am working with, I can and prefer to sculpt
>> blindfolded.  On 
>> the other hand, if I do not know the properties of the
>> material I am 
>> using, then I need to see what it does under my fingers. 
>> I am not 
>> attached to one way or another.  It is just a matter of 
>> functionality, of using the art supplies in the best
>> possible way.
>>
>> "Style" to me is something entirely different.  Technique
>> can exists 
>> without style.   It can be a perfect dance, but pure
>> technique is cold.
>>
>> My analogy is the story of Pygmalion.  Style is a breath
>> of life for 
>> a technically perfect, but otherwise cold dance.  Style
>> is when 
>> Galatea comes to life.  So imagine if Pygmalion wished
>> for a pile of 
>> clay to become alive BEFORE he finished the beautiful
>> female 
>> form.  What horror!  There would be a pile of shapeless
>> clay running 
>> around in the world of myths!
>>
>> My point it that style must be superimposed on the
>> technique and 
>> cannot exists without it.  If a dancer tries to adopt a
>> style PRIOR 
>> to learning the unique technical properties of his or her
>> body, the 
>> style that he/she chooses will force such dancer into a
>> state of 
>> perpetual inconsequence, as far as his or her dance
>> experience goes.
>>
>> The term "Milonguero style" feels to me as offensive to
>> all true 
>> milongueros.  As a generalization, it misses more than it
>>
>> captures.  Originally, it was a term that was meant to
>> describe very 
>> specific limitations.  I learned this from a very well
>> known person 
>> in tango, who has been invisible to the world outside of 
>> Argentina.  The story goes like this:
>>
>> In the late 80s/early90s, Susanna Miller coined the term
>> "milonguero 
>> style" to describe the focus of her classes, which at
>> that time was a 
>> quick training that would allow people to go to the
>> milongas and be 
>> able to dance in a very short amount of time.
>>
>> As most people know, tango as a dance form is very
>> demanding in 
>> training and time.  Many people do not want that.  They
>> just want to 
>> learn enough to be acceptable in the milongas.  This was
>> what Susanna 
>> Miller was offering.  It was not about dancing well or
>> developing 
>> yourself through movement.  The purpose was to know a few
>> elements 
>> that would allow the social experience of tango in a
>> fairly crowded setting.
>>
>> I think that this was useful.  People want different
>> things from 
>> their tango experience.  What I question is the eagerness
>> of some 
>> very serious dancers to embrace a term that implies so
>> many limitations.
>>
>> Many of you have seen Eduardo Capuzzi (I hope I spelled
>> his name 
>> correctly) and Marianna Flores dance  (especially their
>> vampire piece 
>> to La Cumparcitay).  They are very entertaining.  Their
>> dancing is 
>> superbly stylized.  But if you look very closely, they
>> have 
>> phenomenal technique.  But it is never at the forefront
>> of what we 
>> see as an audience.  It serves as a solid foundation to
>> their chosen style.
>>
>> Technique and style are not one and the same.  Technique
>> can be a 
>> dance, but who with a beating heart would want it?! 
>> Style without 
>> technique is a pile of shapeless clay running around in
>> the milongas 
>> without ever becoming a tango Galatea.
>>
>> Warmest regards to everyone of you,
>>
>> Nina
>>
>>
>> At 05:39 PM 11/2/2006, you wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi Igor,
>>>
>>> What I was hearing was people getting hung up on the
>>>       
>> label
>>     
>>> "milonguero-style".  This appears to be a language
>>>       
>> issue,
>>     
>>> not an actual dance issue.   When Timmy wrote his email,
>>> enough people knew what he was talking about.  Which
>>>       
>> means
>>     
>>> that term is quite valid.
>>>
>>> I was also hearing people unfairly placing
>>>       
>> characteristics
>>     
>>> onto those who use the term, even though others who do
>>>       
>> not
>>     
>>> use the term can also have those very same
>>>       
>> characteristics.
>>     
>>> At the TangoFest recently, a friend of ours was amused
>>>       
>> to
>>     
>>> hear a well-known nuevo teacher complaining about how
>>> organizers keep bringing in teachers of different
>>>       
>> styles.
>>     
>>> The teacher thought that people should stick to one
>>>       
>> style.
>>     
>>> Gee, exactly what some on this list complain that
>>>       
>> another
>>     
>>> milonguero-style teacher says.
>>>
>>> I don't hear Republicans complaining that the Democrats
>>> labeling themselves as Democrats implies that the
>>> Republicans do not believe in democracy.
>>>
>>> Don't forget to vote on Tuesday.
>>>
>>> Trini de Pittsburgh
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Igor Polk <ipolk at virtuar.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Trini,
>>>> I do not think you are listening to other people.
>>>> You are a typical milonguero style dancer.
>>>>
>>>> And of course there are many other close embrace
>>>>         
>> styles.
>>     
>>>> Example?
>>>> Canyengue.
>>>>
>>>> Igor
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>         
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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