[Tango-L] Women leading I

[Sergio Vandekier]

I made a summary of the answers so far, later perhaps we could discuss some 
of the following ideas a little further. Sergio

Janis shares with us Ricardo Vidart's opinion on the subject of women 
leading in tango : she says

"He didn't comment on the
subject of women learning to lead other than saying, "I don't believe that a
women should dance tango as a man" and said he would share his comments with
me at another time.   Ricardo didn't advocate women learning to lead in
order to teach."

This is an opinion that most Argentines both women and men agree with.  I do 
not think that it has anything to do with machismo, it has to do with many 
other elements that are implied in tango dancing.

Do you know anything about this?

Sergio

1  - Women leading men look finel, are very connected, both partners are 
having a great time.

  Isn't it true that at the beginning, when tango first began, men were 
dancing with men before they became "learned" enough in order to dance with 
a woman?

Why couldn't that be the case for women? Why wouldn't a woman want to learn 
to lead so she would learn to become an even better follower?

What's wrong with wanting to learn more about tango from your partner's 
perspective? I mean, really, what's going to happen if a woman learns to 
lead? Will the world of tango fall off its axis?

Caroline Pollack


2 - To have a well behaved dog never let her lead you
pulling on the leash in front of you...Lucia

Why not forget about Tango for a moment, come to live for a few months  in
Argentina of the common non-dancing folk and try to understand their  
mentality
and way of life?


3 - One has to decide what one wants to do best, and learn
ones own skill, instead of trying control everything
that everyone else is doing. Derik.

So why do US Americans tango
teachers insist on calling our USA style of tango
"Argentine tango", when in fact it is not the real
thing at all.  Our US American tango is only a bad
imitation of the real thing.  Derik

Flipping back and forth and changing roles constantly
by bending the rules, just because one is unsuccessful
in a chosen role is a bad thing.  This is what I see
too many women in the USA do in tango when they cannot
get a man's attention.  To me it is wrong. They do not
get attention because they are usually very bad
dancers...lol. (...and they usually tell you that they
are tango teachers to cover up their lack of
skill and charm...lol)

4 - In the milongas of Buenos Aires, I have yet to see women leading women.
Women have such beauty to add to the dance as women.... and all the focus is
on that.  I agree with this position, and that women leading women as a
learning tool should be reserved for practicas and classrooms.
Scott Bennett

5 - What a crock!  why is it that a woman can't be as good
a leader as a man, and still be a good follower?  I've
seen it, i've danced on either side of it, I know it
is possible.  I think the naysaysers are just
threatened. Kat

6 - When in Pisa, do as the Pisans do -- lean with it.
When in BsAs follow the local custom.
Martin Waxman

7 - Even today when I have difficulty with a figure, my teacher,
Joe, will lead me so I can try and figure out how to lead it
correctly and what I'm doing wrong.

I wonder if some women learn to lead because they are so
dissatisfied with the leaders in their community. Are they
sending a message?

Michael Ditkoff

8 - I started tango that it is taught asymmetrically even though the motions
of both parties are the pretty much the same once they get proficient.
It also has impressed me that the learning curve is therefore steeper
than it need be. I've also noticed that all the really good tango
teachers I've run into know how to lead and follow and often suggest it
to their students.
Jeff Gaynor

9 - Would tango be as popular in BsAs without us? Maybe, but not as much.
Who can tell? Who gets to decide?

Some philosopher once said "You can't look at a thing without changing it".
Maybe we non-Argentines have been looking at this too much.

Lois in Minneapolis (Loisita is B Aires)

10 - For me, Tango is not a  furtherance of tradition as define
by a select few, but fun and enjoyment that  grows from a tradition, a
tradition if I have been reading my history correctly,  that has grown on
change,
albeit slow at times, but never the less  change.
Just  some thoughts,
Bill  in Seattle

11 - At times at some places there was not enough of dancers of the opposite
gender. So what?

For me to "follow" is to be able to perceive and react to the lead well.
This is it. Just a name. Because of my limitation in language and culture, I
do not sense any negative connotations. I could say "feeling". There is such
thing like "feeling of the partner".
Igor Polk

12 - In my club, a year or two ago, some girls were starting to lead. It's 
fun,
it's a new skill, and we would do it whenever we felt like it. Since our 
gender
balance is usually fairly close to equal, some of the guys found themselves 
on
the sidelines without a partner, watching the goings on. When there were
several, they would usually start complaining, of course they also found it
secretly exciting, but that's another story.  Tine

13 - Hopefully all the men who never or rarely have
been lead (how about closing  your eyes to give
up all control), should check their
"macho-meter" and try it! It is a great
experience, lots of things to be discovered; you
might like it in  the end!?

Who cares what they do in Argentina, they were
the ones bringing it to the world in the first
place  (was it Paris?). So now  Tango is free, no
rules ...Who ownes my Tango? Me!
Miha Glockenspiel

14 - The guys are only complaining because the women who
lead usually get to dance with the best followers. If
there are 7 really good followers at a milonga, and
three women are leading, that leaves only one good
follower for us guys!

Sean ;->

15 - But that doesn't matter - wherever you are, there are lovely women 
dancers
who are starting to lead out of necessity. In so many communities, women
just get bored. If they don't lead, they sit way too much. Not hard to
empathize. More and more opportunities all the time now.

There are occasional times when another guy and I will dance a song just
for fun - because not much is happening. Empty place type thing. Maybe
twice a year. And we'll switch parts and enjoy 6 minutes of challenge. And
it is really fun, because women who lead tend to be kind of soft. To have
a firm lead is a bit of a relief for a male follower.

There is no way that is THE way. Never was. The Argentines have always
taken their lead from the rest of the world after their initial outburts
of genius. They invented it and would *perhaps* have lost it long ago
without outside influence. History tells us so.

Keith

16 - well i lead in buenos aires...  in classes and at the milongas..  i
lead friends of mine who are very good and sensitive dancers.  i have
also led an Argentine male friend of mine who is an excellent
follower.  women seek me out in classes (argentine and visitors) and
everyone is surprised that i , a woman, lead as well as i do.  i
think i receive more compliments than complaints and surprisingly
probably get asked to dance more after i lead.   maybe everyone is
more forgiving because i am an norte americana.  :-)
Jackie Wong

17 - Now, I take issue with this deference to BA, but not simply (a) because
I live in DC, or (b) because we don't have the crowded-floor
contingencies that make close-embrace dancing the only viable option.
There's more to it than that. Even if I lived in Buenos Aires itself, I
would still spare myself the kow-tow because, in point of fact, there
has always been dispute, conflict, and competition over dancing styles
there. If the city is definitively anything, it is definitively divided.
Jake Spatz

18 - I couldn't imagine sitting out out a dance or having to settle for a 
crappy
partner.
  Sweet if whoever, can learn whatever, in able to dance.
  I'm with Keith, a few times a year, i'll dance with other guys.
  Its a trip.  Ideally, a women rocks. Guys have big hands, fur everywhere.
  Women smell nice, soft skin, curves...
  Leading is a trip to: followers will share in the experience you're 
helping to
  create...damndest thing.
God

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