[Tango-L] Close all the time vs all ranges debate

[Ed Doyle]

Hi Bill,

You make a lot of good points in your post below. I thought I would
share my experiences as a beginner with now one year experience.

My very first exposure to tango was 8 weeks of group instruction in
open embrace.  We learned figures like ballroom dancers do.  Somehow,
the dance immediately captured my heart and soul, but also, almost
immediately I knew we were learning and doing it wrong.  The
instructor would line the ladies up on one side or the room, and teach
them their part, then teach the men their part, then put us together
and with a microphone she would call our each step and we 'danced
tango' all together like a square dance. Immediately I sensed that the
ladies did not need us leaders since they had the instructor with her
microphone.  This was confirmed to me after class when I tried to lead
one of the ladies but I put the figures we learned in a different
order and she said, if you are going to change the order, could you
write the steps you want to do on a card and pin it to your shirt and
I will do them with you in the order you want.  I knew we were in
trouble.

I went to my first milonga with real tango dancers and found I had no
way at all to move around the room in line of dance.  I knew some
figures, but they were all done in one place. I was always in the way
of the other leaders.  So I sat down and watched.  The couples on the
floor were dancing so beautifully, I knew there was something there
and I was missing it.

Next I went to a few group lessons with a wonderful instructor of
close embrace.  I didn't know ahead of time it would be close embrace,
it just happened to be that way. Here I learned to connect with my
partner, to move around the floor, to respect and enjoy the other
dancers.  I'm certainly not saying this couldn't have been done just
as well in open embrace, just that my particular experience was with
close embrace all the time.  I took some private lessons, and danced
whenever I could in close embrace.  I loved it. For six months, I only
danced close embrace because I felt I would be overwhelmed and not do
anything right if I tried to learn two styles at the same time.  In
retrospect, I'm not sure if this would have been true, but I believed
it at the time and stuck with close embrace.

Next I moved to a place where it turned out all the instructors  all
taught open embrace.  So - when in Rome, do as the Romans do.  So I
put my whole heart and sole into learning open embrace figures, but
maintaining the connection and actually leading my partners, not the
square dance like tango of my first exposure.  This was very
rewarding.

Today, I love both styles, open and close embrace.  I choose which to
use based on many factors, my partner, my mood, the music, the floor
(crowded, open, etc). Usually I do any single dance in one style or
the other, but sometimes in a tanda I will switch from open to close
and maybe back to open again.  As you point out, some partners
immediately enjoy close embrace, and some perhaps for cultural or
other reasons are more comfortable at least at first in an open
embrace.  To me, it is all about I and my partner connecting and if we
connect better in open, fine, and if we connect better in close, that
is fine to.  Both ways, the dance can be heavenly.

Well, I really haven't any advice here or points to make, just sharing
my experience as a one year beginner.  I certainly would not yet say I
am 'good' at either style, but I have had some wonderful moments in
both styles, and that is about as good as it gets I think.

For me, if the floor is very crowded, or if I have a partner who is
not very experienced in tango, but is willing to dance close embrace,
I can get around the floor without being disruptive to the other
dancers and make a pleasant experience for my partner better in close
embrace than in open.  If the floor is more open and other dancers are
less a consideration, and if my partner allows me to lead i.e. is not
an ocho machine as discussed in other posts, I can make a pretty nice
experience for both of us in open embrace.  Again, this is me
personally with my experience and should not be taken as a legitimate
comparison of open and close embrace.  This dance is different for
each of us and I am just sharing how it works or doesn't work for me.

Have a wonderful tango day.

Ed

On 5/5/06, Euroking at aol.com <Euroking at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Again we are looking this from our illusion of the central position  and our
> love of Tango being that central point. As is our desire to be good  at it and
> make it a mutually gratifying experience. It does not matter the  style, it
> is this love of Tango that drives us.
>
> The rub is reality. Teachers need students, students need to be infected
> with the central point. Some are infected almost immediately, some aren't.   Some
> come as couples, with one partner 'requiring the other, for the good of the
> order, to participate".  The both have to enjoy the learning experience to
> come back for the second lesson.  To some, the thought of trying to learn
> something new and perceptively complicated while joined at the chest is
> frightening and an invasion of their privacy. Why, culturally, it is an invasion  of
> their space, it is a commitment to a stranger that makes them uncomfortable,
> there are probably many reasons. The point is that it inhibits some.
>
> In addition, to pay money to learn how to walk is a turn off and a bore,
> when first you don't have a good understanding of why you need it and two, you
> want to go home and think you have learned something.
>
> Hence, some teachers begin with an open embrace, where each student  learns
> to manage their own axis and each learns the 'basic patterns".   As classes
> progress, and the teacher lays sufficient ground worked on the  cultural
> background and the need to walk and be in balance, close embrace is  more easily
> introduced. I will not discount that the difference in learning  curves will cause
> problems and if the teacher allows bad habits to develop, the  result might
> not be to good. But, we have good teachers and unfortunately bad  teachers.
>
> The critical part of this approach is that the teacher must always be
> providing info and guidance on the basics, the walk, the balance, the importance  of
> the connection, the need of listening to the music, as well as encouragement
> to listen to the music outside of class.
>
> This approach is neither right or wrong, but seems to me when recruiting  new
> dancers from the general populace, a open embrace approach is better. This
> is from experience as I still have not been able to total bridge the gap with
> my  spouse on the close embrace with strangers routine, but that is another
> quest.
>
> A well motivated group could well begin in close embrace and do well. Again
> the key is that the client base either as it exists or is desired will or
> should  dictate the method of teaching in the beginning classes. As students
> desire to  learn more and progress styles of teaching as well as learning styles
> change.
>
> IMHO, just some thoughts,
>
> Bill in Seattle
>
> In a message dated 5/5/2006 8:11:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> michaelfigart at yahoo.com writes:
>
> Hello  Aurora,
>
> And welcome to the wonderful world of Argentine Tango. It  really is
> wonderful, please don't get a mistaken impression by viewing some  of the
> "animosity" on this list. I'm looking so forward to seeing all  my
> friends at the Memorial Day festival in Denver, I had a real blast  at
> Atlanta festival last month, etc, etc. If it wasn't for tango, my  spare
> time would probably still be limited to watching TV, playing with  my
> Labrador, and yardwork.
>
> I'm of the personal opinion that  Argentine Tango is best taught first as
> a close-embrace dance (for reasons  I won't go into here), but I do
> believe that it's very possible to teach  beginners in the open style
> also, if done correctly. Both require stringent  attention to developing
> VERY basic skills, with much emphasis on  connection, and leading mostly
> with torso (actually I think we should lead  and follow with every fiber
> of our being, but the upper torso (read; chest)  is the "communication
> center" to transmit and receive).
>
> A famous  tango expression; "To learn Tango we must first learn to  walk".
>
> Teaching figures from the start is a classic way to get off on  the wrong
> foot. To start off right; Posture, embrace, connection. Axis,  balance
> (sometimes shared), center, weight, changing weight. Walking,  walking
> with the music, stopping, walking again. Walking and throwing a  few
> "quick-quicks". A few weeks of this and maybe time to throw in  ocho
> cortado to help keep people interested. Then cross-footed  walking,
> getting in and out of cross feet, cross-footed walking inside,  then
> outside, your partner. Then some back ochos. Technique,  connection,
> communication, technique, connection, communication, etc,  etc.....You
> get my drift.
>
> Any teacher who teaches ganchos inside of  8 wks should be drawn and
> quartered, in my opinion, whether teaching open  or close.
>
> Forget the figures, concentrate on feeling comfortable in  the
> frame/embrace, developing the technique, teaching your body how to  move
> naturally, and also naturally with another body, in this new  wonderful
> "walk".
>
> Look for teachers who just ooze "natural" in their  movements, who seem
> to have the music in their hearts, who concentrate on  the communication
> aspects, and who tell the leaders that their primary goal  is to make
> their followers happy and secure, and to learn how to interpret  the
> beautiful music.
>
> Save the figures for later, they may still seem  a little difficult at
> first, but at least learning them won't induce the  bad habits inherent
> in the dancers who, from the first, concentrate on  looking good, instead
> of feeling good.
>
> Best of luck, please email  anytime I can help, and I look forward to a
> tanda sometime!
>
> Regards  to all,
>
> Michael Figart II
> Houston TX
>
>
>
> -----Original  Message-----
> From: tango-l-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces at mit.edu]  On Behalf
> Of Aurora Nemirow
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 3:30 AM
> To:  tango-l at mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Close all the time vs all ranges  debate
>
> I take a class at my university for beginning tango. This is  my
> second term, and I wanted to share a few observations and ask  your
> thoughts:
>
> Last term was my first ever tango class and my  teacher began with
> open embrace. We learned more figures and even  got to touch on rad
> things like ganchos and boleos. Around the 8th  week of class, we
> began doing close embrace. The leads in class  found it very difficult
> (vocally! ;) to do any of the figures they  had learned in open, in
> close. I think starting in open allowed a  bit of "cheating" with
> posture, use of arms (as in  shoving-me-around-the-floor-with-arms use
> of arms), and what my  teacher calls duck-walking (cartoon cowboy
> walks for those who have  not had the pleasure).
>
> This term, we've begun with close embrace.  Personally, I'm thrilled
> because my friends that continued from last  term get to work on all
> the things they know in close embrace. BUT,  the learning curve is so
> different! It seems to take longer for the  brand new dancers to
> understand the connection in close embrace (and  every figure is first
> taught in close), but once they get it, they  can dance it in open.
> One of the leads even mentioned to me that he  totally got how the
> thing he was doing at the time (the cross maybe?  I forget) could
> easily be B.S.ed in open. But at our weekly  practicas I've danced
> with him in open a few times and he, as with  all the leads new this
> term, can lead it just fine. The thing about  beginning with close
> embrace is that we have spent more time working  on getting the
> connection that we have learned very few figures. Its  definitely a
> trade off.
>
> This all leads me to think that  perhaps close embrace is a good way
> *to begin* teaching AT. Like  Christopher said, it really forces the
> dancers to understand what a  good connection feels like. For those of
> us that are just jumping  into the dance, the idea of connection is so
> foreign that, I  believe, it may be more constructive to shove it
> under our noses at  first. Only once we understand what it is that is
> being asked of us,  we can back off and use arms, legs, earlobes for
> connection. I know  for myself that having begun in open and then
> spent this whole term  in close, I have a much stronger understanding
> of my connection in  any embrace.
>
> To me this is similar to many things. For instance, few  people could
> take an integral without understanding the concept of a  tangent line.
>
> What do you think about this? I would love to hear  stories about
> other beginning classes, or your own experience  beginning with one
> type of embrace. And what you thought about  another kind when you
> branched out. Thanks a ton  guys!
>
>
> Aurora @ PDX
>
>
>
> p.s. sorry about how long that  was - didn't mean to write a novel! Whew!
>
> p.p.s. Tine a while back you  asked about people at other
> universities? Me! Me! Portland State U.  is simply brimming with new
> tangueros. Can I hit you up for ideas  and such?
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