[Tango-L] Self appointed, etc - threads seen as evidence of a Cultural Strife

[Derik Rawson]

Dear Lucia:

Exactly. I agree with you completely.

Derik
d.rawson at rawsonweb.com

--- Lucia <curvasreales at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:

> I believe that with this, and like recent threads,
> we are  witnessing  a phenomenon  transcending the
> personal opinions  of people holding misconceptions
> about Tango and the Argentine way of  life. 
>   
>   We are witnessing yet another manifestation of the
> effects of  globalization, such as the strife about
> McDonalds in France and Italy,  Disneyworld in
> France,  the fight against anglicization of 
> national languages throughout the world.
>   
>   So now we have self-righteous non-Argentines
> preaching how to dance,  no, How  to Change! a
> National Heritage not their own. We get even 
> missionaries of this New World coming to Buenos
> Aires, like a certain  Lois from Minnesota (pardon
> me, Loisita! in BsAs) peddling their  concept  of
> Tango.
>   
>   Feel free re-inventing Argentine Tango at home,
> why not, it is fun  after all (I am sincere), it has
> been done and there are different  flavors of Tango
> in the world, but please let go of the Argentine 
> National Patrimony.
>   
>   Lucia
>   
>   
> Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990 at hotmail.com>
> escribió:  Dear friends of tango-L,
> 
>                             Over the many years that
> we have been together 
> reading, exchanging ideas, discussing tango topics,
> few subjects have been 
> so controversial as: tango roles and tango styles.
> 
> I think that few times we have had a discussion like
> the one we are having 
> about "women leading".
> Very few times so many people expressed their ideas
> so clearly with honesty 
> and conviction.
> 
> The benefit of such discussion is that, hopefully we
> all are learning 
> something, I know I learned a lot.
> 
> We always try (as required by the rules of the list)
> to center our 
> discussion on ideas and not on the personality of
> the posters.
> 
> Most of the contributors to this list follow those
> rules. Over the years 
> there have been very few exceptions.
> 
> My initial intention was to discuss tango roles and
> then proceed to discuss 
> rituals and codes of the milongas of Buenos Aires
> but while considering my 
> intervention on those subjects finished I am going
> to drift somewhat away 
> from the rules of the list.
> 
> My first question today was "who is Jake Spatz ?" -
> nobody seems to know 
> him.
> 
> But you know what? it is difficult to know who he
> is.
> The following comes from his web page:
> 
> "News
> Born with the mysterious ability to resemble
> everyone but himself, JAKE 
> SPATZ has frequently (and repeatedly) been mistaken
> for an Italian, a 
> Scotsman, an Argentine, a southerner, an Arab, a
> Turk, Vladimir Lenin, and a 
> mulatto. In point of fact, he is a semi-ambidextrous
> American of Eastern 
> European descent."
> 
> As you can see, it is difficult to figure out what
> or who he is but in 
> actuality he seems to be some sort of a genius with
> multiple personalities
> 
> Most Argentine males, born and raised in the culture
> of tango attend lessons 
> and practicas for two years before they venture into
> a real milonga; many 
> consider that it takes about 10 years of regular
> dancing to really know 
> tango well enough to teach and to make a good
> interpretation of the 
> different orchestras.
> 
> Not Jake, no sir!  - he became a professor of tango
> in less than two years 
> of regular dancing.
> 
> According to his web page he is not only able to
> teach close and open 
> embrace tango but most other styles as well.
> 
> His page says:
> 
> "Jake Spatz was an instant tango addict after his
> first lesson in Brooklyn's 
> Art Land Bar, but was also an instant quitter and an
> insanely busy fellow. 
> He finally started dancing regularly in Oct. 2004
> after moving back to the 
> DC area, and is now an active presence in the DC
> tango community. Besides 
> dancing socially, teaching, and performing, Jake now
> translates tango lyrics 
> as well, and recites one every Wednesday night at
> Divino Lounge (Bethesda, 
> MD). "
> 
> He also performs and guess what? - he translates
> tango lyrics, free version 
> of lyrics that is.
> 
> He reads his translations every week  .  They are
> full of misunderstandings 
> but that does not affect the general meaning of the
> translation.   What 
> describes very well his personality is something
> that he writes about, in 
> his page.
> 
> Obviously he is not Argentine, I doubt very much
> even that he ever visited 
> Argentina, but who knows?
> 
> In any case, he translates the title of the tango
> "El ciruja" as " - the 
> surgeon"  (surgeon in  Spanish is cirujano no
> ciruja)    ciruja in Argentina 
> means bum, vagrant.
> 
> Now this could be an honest mistake like many others
> he has in his 
> translations but...  Viviana Levison, an excellent
> tango teacher of DC, 
> Argentine and intelligent woman tells him "Jake,
> Ciruja means bum, not 
> surgeon"  He thanks her, enters what she said in his
> page, expresses his 
> intention to investigate later and keeps the
> erroneous translation in place. 
>    Another Argentine lady attemted to explain
> something erroneous about his 
> translation of 'compadrito" incertain context but
> again he knows more than 
> any Argentine native and did not accept her
> explanation. He again writes 
> about his discussion in his page.
> 
> Does all this relates to tango? - I think it does.  
> What do you think about 
> tango teaching in some places of the USA.
> 
> As Derik says: what do you think of such self
> appointed tango teachers?.
> 
> As to Bruno Romero... the poor guy has read a couple
> of booklets about tango 
> history, probably those of Maria del Carmen Silingo,
> and proclaimed himself 
> Tango historian.
> 
> How was that I am criticized by these two
> subscribers?   It is not about my 
> ideas, not indeed, it is because I disagreed with
> what they said.
> 
> Jake falsely represented the neighborhoods of Bs.As.
> as a sort of a Gangs of 
> New York or L.A. situation, with people killing each
> other not over drugs 
> but over tango styles: I told him this was not so.
> 
> Bruno writes all sort of misconceptions about tango
> history and once in a 
> while I corrected them.
> Now he call a spade a spade. :)))
> 
> This is the situation in tango-L and in the world of
> self appointed tango 
> teachers and tango historians.
> 
> Good night, Sergio
> 
>
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