This Group

Tue May 4 17:15:01 EDT 2010

Hi back Rick,

We've started using PI, SOA and more recently CE and I think it's fair  
to say that collectively they're a fascinating new way to tackling a  
very old set of problems using concepts and software that present  
their own unique obstacles. But despite the novelty, the tools being  
provided are still too much of a work in progress and quite painful to  
use at times.

PI in particular is a nightmare at scale because XML / SOAP is so  
verbose and just eats up memory like you wouldn't believe. Also you're  
only given half a toy to play with because somehow you're supposed to  
come up with your own SOA ABAP Class hierarchy to wrap around your  
applications so that PI can speak and hear what it wants. It's so  
maddening to work with that sometimes even a simple Bapi call ends up  
being wrapped in such complex stuff you'd wish you could write an RFC  
wrapper and be done with it. Almost to point where your average  
permanent or even contractor needs elite skills just to tinker with it.

CE is proving to be a bit too vague and wooly too. Imagine having to  
define your tables, domains, data elements and so on all over again  
because the Java stack you're using has no discipline and can't see  
the Data Dictionary. It feels like it's only half-done. A potential  
modelling tool, itself under development. Yes it can be system- 
agnostic by design and you can swap out systems underneath it and it  
should still work, but can it really be exposed to Agents? Not really.  
And that's an issue because to build a UI just to work with CE seems a  
bit pointless really.

And as for the 'dark' Workflow of ccBPM on the PI box I doubt anyone  
would want to use it in reality. It's a bit like a curiousity, an  
experiment to see if something could be gained for relatively little  
development overhead. Has anyone here has really seen it being used  
that much at all?

Regards,

Mike GT

Sent from my iPhone

On 4 May 2010, at 20:32, "Sample, Rick" <Rick.Sample at graybar.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> Putting aside the original intent of this thread,
> I am curious as to how much others have put into SAP's newer BPM  
> tools.
> So far, I have really only done 4.6c work. A little ABAP objects here,
> a few simple classes there, etc.
>
> I have never used the "Composite Environment" or any of the tools,
> but I have been recently tasked to start reviewing these for BPM.
>
> I will be visiting SDN BPM quite frequently I suspect. But are there
> numbers / percent of customers that have migrated to these tools and
> processes? BPM, SOA, etc. sounds nice, but also sounds like a huge  
> leap.
>
> Regards,
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On  
>> Behalf
>> Of Madgambler
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 2:04 PM
>> To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>> Cc: SAP Workflow Users' Group; sap-wug-request at mit.edu
>> Subject: Re: This Group
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> No point replying to other posts on this thread as the original
>> message is succinct enough to merit a direct response.
>>
>> I think the attention being paid to this forum is directly
>> proportional to the amount and complexity of Workflow development
>> being carried out and the depth of Workflow development experience in
>> the average subscriber.
>>
>> Now it could be argued that fewer 'new' Workflow issues being
>> discussed here could mean good or bad things are happening in the  
>> real
>> world. From my personal experience it seems more likely that SAP
>> Buisiness Workflow is receding as a tool and waning as a skillset.
>>
>> Granted it's more immediately accessible to the general Client  
>> because
>> it's embedded in the standard offering. But are people pushing the
>> boundaries of what it can do or have we hit them already and that's  
>> as
>> far as SAP plan to take it?
>>
>> These days the juicier Business Process Modelling projects are being
>> done in the Composite Environment (Java) arena and less often in the
>> ABAP stack at all.
>>
>> So rather than this Forum losing support I would actually argue that
>> Workflow itself has reached a plateau and stopped evolving. Perhaps
>> only for a while...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike GT
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 4 May 2010, at 16:48, Nash John <emailtonash at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I get the feeling that this group is slowly but steadily loosing its
>>> significance as I don't see members active/willing to get involved
>>> in discussion/help as it used to be 3 to 4 years ago.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Nash
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
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