[Macpartners] Re: Apple Software Restore/Carbon Copy Cloner problems on cloning Beige G3s...

[Kerem B Limon]

Eric--

Thank you for your response, but I did resolve the problem some time ago 
and haven't had time to respond with my findings--your e-mail reminded me. 
Mike (Bombich)'s solutions seem to be the key: Especially regarding Old 
World machines. I ended up using a combination of Carbon Copy Cloner and 
the Mac OS X-native, command line version of the Apple Software Restore 
tool (ASR) that comes with 10.2.2 or after. Here is the working solution 
for everyone's benefit.

I can verify that Disk Copy 6.5b13 (latest I have) no longer produces 
usable images for OS X machines (this perhaps started with newer versions 
of OS X), so you will need to use an OS X environment to do the cloning. 
This is generally an annoyance, because it is mighty easy and convenient to 
make a bootable OS 9 CD and use that to mount local external or network 
volumes; especially in cases where you still have OS-9-bootable machines 
and don't have the resources or overhead to set up a NetRestore solution. 
As an alternative, I have yet to find the time to try CharlesSoft's BootCD 
(http://www.charlessoft.com/) or similar instructions to make a bootable OS 
X CD with what I want on it. (To date, I am still awaiting someone to 
develop a simple, DriveImage or Ghost like application as on the PC, for 
Macs. Both of those run out of DOS, fit on a floppy--or 
floppy-on-a-bootable CD--and consistently work without any problems, 
whatsoever. Even a linux boot disk with dd accomplishes that task, albeit 
rather crudely. It's a pain to have to have an entire huge operating 
environment around to do this on a few machines.)

In order to make the process faster, I installed a fresh, lean (no need for 
"additonal" apps, localization resources, printer drivers, etc.) copy of X 
10.2.8+necessary updates on to a large external SCSI HDD. I used 10.2.x 
instead of 10.3 because these are OldWorld machines that won't easily 
install/boot 10.3 (Yes, you can work around this using XPostFacto 
(http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/), but I was content with 
10.2 on these machines, so that was not necessary. I used a SCSI HDD for 
the same reason that these machines do not have built-in FireWire or USB 
and/or cannot boot from them if there are such add-in cards. I made sure 
Carbon Copy Cloner 2.3 (latest) was on the system. On newer machines, you 
can substitute FireWire (or USB1, though it'll be even slower than SCSI) 
external HDDs, of course, or use an IDE drive if you don't mind opening up 
the machines.

After setting up my "model" machine, I followed Mike's instructions at 
http://www.bombich.com/mactips/asrx-original.html (which describes how to 
create what's called a sparse (expandable, that is) disk image and how to 
copy/clone your model on to it). Once you create the image, the 
copying/cloning part takes a number of long/detailed steps outlined (linked 
at) http://www.bombich.com/mactips/image.html#commands . Since these are 
quite involved and Carbon Copy Cloner essentially automates this entire 
process, I decided to use that instead. So, here's what I did, step-by-step:

o I booted from my external SCSI HDD with the X 10.2.8+ install and Carbon 
Copy Cloner on it.

o Next, I ran Disk Utility to verify the "model" machine's internal HDD and 
its permissions and make repairs as necessary.

o After launching Carbon Copy Cloner from my Iexternal HDD, I authenticated 
as an owner, selected my model machine's internal HDD as the "source".

o Within Carbon Copy Cloner, I opened the Preferences (use Carbon Copy 
Cloner | Preferences or press the [Preferences] button). There, I made 
checked "Create a disk image on target" under "Disk image options" and 
subsequently checked "Prepare for Apple Software Restore" under "ASR 
options". I chose "Read-only compressed" as the format to save some disk 
space, but you can also use "Read-only" to make things faster and save some 
time. When you make these selections, "Make bootable" should have 
automatically been checked under "Disk options", so verify that. One 
caveat/bug I ran into was that on some machines, selecting "Create a disk 
image on target" did not immediately enable the "ASR options" checkboxes; 
however, clicking on them nonetheless made them active and 
selectable--could be very confusing to the uninitiated. I then saved my 
preferences.

o I hit the [Clone] button to create the image; filled in the necessary 
information when prompted what to name it and where to save it, etc. I then 
let it do its thing, which naturally takes longer on an OldWorld G3.

o (This step is optional, but I did it for peace of mind, as I don't really 
trust X's Disk Utility with the OS 9 drivers and I want to make sure the OS 
9 part of the environment I am cloning works fine). I booted one of the 
"target" machines with an OS 9.2.2 bootable CD and created a clean new 
single partition on the HDD (which installed the OS 9 drivers 
automatically). I chose to zero it, though not strictly necessary. The next 
step should also theoretically take care of this, and of course, you can 
choose to do this from OS X using Disk Utility, remembering to install OS 9 
drivers, but your mileage may vary.

o When finished, I shut down the system, took the external HDD and hooked 
it up to one of the "target" machines, and again booted from the external 
drive.

o I opened up a Terminal session, and used the native command-line ASR tool 
to restore the image to the "target" HDD:

sudo asr -source /path-to-the-asr-disk-image-I-created-above.dmg -target 
/Volumes/name-of-the-newly-created-partitionordisk-created-above-on-the-target-machine 
-erase

(Substitute with the full path to your disk image for /path...-above.dmg 
and the full path to the newly partitioned internal "target" disk, usu. 
/Volumes/<name of the internal disk as seen on desktop> -- you can also 
just drag and drop their icons on the Terminal window when you need to type 
them and it'll automatically fill in.)

This started the process, which first verified the ASR image for 
consistency and then restored it to the internal "target" drive. There is a 
simple progress indicator with percentages and periods showing where you 
are in the process. It takes a bit of time, but of course is faster than 
creating the image in the first place.

o Finally, I ran Carbon Copy Cloner again. I authenticated again as an 
owner and selected the newly cloned internal "target" drive as the target. 
Then, I selected "File | Bless OldWorld Target Disk" just to be on the safe 
side. This will take a little bit of time on older machines, with the 
"File" menu highlighted, as if it's stuck or hung, but rest assured it's 
doing its thing, so be patient. This may not be necessary, and if you like 
command-line equivalents are detailed in Mike's instructions in the above 
pages.

After this, I was able to successfully boot OS 9 & X on the newly cloned 
machines. These may only be necessary for OldWorld machines, as Carbon Copy 
Cloner "cloning" from a model disk to a new target disk, even in the same 
machine did not produce working results for me. I have also not tried using 
CCC to restore the ASR image I created (time was of the essence then and I 
had to use whatever I knew worked at the time).

Some important caveats:

o On some newly cloned machines, even though you *can* select the OS 9 
partition on the newly cloned internal "target" disk to boot when you're 
done restoring the ASR image and are still booted from the external SCSI 
HDD, this sometimes doesn't work and you're kicked back into OS X on the 
external SCSI HDD upon reboot. I found that rebooting to OS X on the 
internal HDD and then rebooting to OS 9 on the internal HDD from there 
works; or, if you also have a working OS 9 install on the external HDD, 
booting to that and then rebooting to the internal OS 9 HDD works. I assume 
these are related to issues with older versions of OpenFirmware on these 
older machines (the PRAM batteries appear to be in good shape).

o OS X is quite portable across different types of hardware, and if your OS 
9 part of your clone image (if you have that, for OS-9-bootable machines) 
is a more encompassing install, you can restore to several kinds of 
machines. I was able to restore to Blue & White G3s as well using the same 
image; one thing to watch out for is that if you set up your model 
originally on a machine with built-in Mac OS ROM, like the G3s, you will be 
missing the Mac OS ROM file in the System Folder. NewWorld machines won't 
boot OS 9 without it, and you'll be stuck at the grey checkerboard screen 
with a flashing question mark in front of a *folder*. *None* of Apple's 
knowledge base articles will help you, because *none* of them mentions this 
possibility. A current copy of the Mac OS ROM can be pulled from a working 
9.2.2 install or install disk. Current versions are listed at 
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24965 -- v8.7 works fine for 
machines I have.

Kerem


At 04/06/02 23:24  Wednesday, Eric Zelman wrote:
>Karem-
>
>For a variety of reasons, Disk Copy is antiquated and should not be used- 
>focus your time on Carbon Copy Cloner and NetRestore. How is the drive 
>attached- IDE?
>
>On May 21, 2004, at 10:21 AM, Kerem B Limon wrote:
>
>>I am having a heck of a time (not) getting a model Mac OS 9.2.2/X 10.2.8 
>>combination setup cloned across to Power Macintosh G3 
>>("Beige"/"Platinum") models.
>>
>>I have tried (details later) all of Disk Copy 6.5b13 cloning, Apple 
>>Software Restore 2.2.5, Carbon Copy Cloner 2.3, all to no avail. I can 
>>either not get the restore/clone from my image to actually take place, or 
>>when it (allegedly) does, to get the Mac to actually boot past the 
>>flashing question mark/floppy icon (searching for a bootable device, that 
>>is). When are we going to get a decent, *fast* cloning solution for the 
>>Mac, a la DriveImage or Ghost?!
>>
>>
>>Here are the verbose details:
>>
>>o All of the hard disk drives concerned are in good shape. I have 
>>individually verified this by taking them out and installing them in a 
>>PC, running the manufacturer's diagnostics, even zero-filling them (IDE 
>>drives; and additionally low-level formatting SCSI drives) and 
>>re-verifying. The drives are *not* broken, nor do they have bad sectors.
>>
>>o I have set up my model configuration, dual boot Mac OS 9.2.2/X 10.2.8 + 
>>updates and desired software set up; it works fine, checks out in Disk 
>>First Aid under 9, X, as well as DiskWarrior and Norton (not implemented 
>>any Norton fixes, so Norton has looked at but not "touched" the drive, 
>>and that was after I had already tried cloning unsuccessfully several 
>>times). It is a single, under-8GB partition, Mac OS Extended, on an IDE 
>>drive, and boots fine on the Power Mac G3 it has  been set up to both OSs.
>>
>>o I have created an image of this using Disk Copy 6.5b13, via "Create 
>>Image from Device". I have then converted the image to ASR format using 
>>the "Scan 9+X image for ASR" AppleScript from the Scripts menu. This 
>>completed successfully, and created a 4 segment (700 MB CD-R size) .dmg 
>>image, which mounts, checksums, and verifies correctly.
>>
>>o If I try to use ASR 2.2.5 to restore this image to an IDE disk in the 
>>system (image stored on and system booted from an external SCSI drive), 
>>ASR will begin, and then after about a minute, simply state "restore has 
>>failed". I have tried different target hard disks and several times, no go.
>>
>>o If I mount the model .dmg image, use Disk Copy 6.5b13 and "Clone" 
>>option from the menus, I am able to clone the image fine. I then have to 
>>go into Drive Setup and remove a write-protect bit that has been set 
>>under the Volume Settings for the recently cloned target volume (why?). I 
>>then try to reboot the system, get stuck at the flashing question 
>>mark/floppy icon...no go.
>>
>>o After this failure, the disk can not be initialized again from Drive 
>>Setup, no matter what I do. Booting to OS X, I can use Disk Utility, 
>>however, to erase/zero-fill the drive and try again; or remove the drive 
>>and zero-fill on the PC using the manufacturer's diagnostic tools, and 
>>try again. Same results follow.
>>
>>o If I try to do this from Mac OS X 10.2.8, using
>>
>>sudo asr -source /path/to/Macintosh_asr.dmg -target 
>>/Volumes/InternalDriveName -erase
>>
>>(substituting file names and paths as necessary, of course)
>>
>>at the Terminal, I am able to successfully "restore" the image. The disk 
>>is mounted and visible, accessible under Mac OS X; Startup Disk can be 
>>selected to the OS 9 or X system on the newly restored disk, however upon 
>>reboot, again, I get the flashing question mark...no go.
>>
>>o If I boot from my model setup, run Disk Utility and erase/zero the 
>>target drive, then run Carbon Copy Cloner 2.3 and "clone", with the "make 
>>bootable" option checked, and "Bless OldWorld disk" from the menu, as 
>>suggested, again, I get a clone that mounts and is readable in Mac OS X. 
>>However, upon reboot, no luck getting past the flashing question mark.
>>
>>o I cannot use Mac OS X 10.3 Disk Utility on this machine, since it is a 
>>Beige G3. I *might* be able to take both model and target disks to a Blue 
>>& White and try the new restore/clone functionality of 10.3 over there, 
>>but something tells me there's more going on here.
>>
>>I am at my wits' end. Any suggestions welcome.
>>
>>Kerem
>>
>>
>Eric Zelman
>Systems Engineer
>Apple
>68 Mt. Hope Ave.
>Providence, RI 02906
>
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