[LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people?? One more thing...

Wed Jul 19 23:28:50 EDT 2006

I respect the wishes of the moderator and I will not further comment on this thread.  But as the originator of this thread I will make these last 3 points.
Unity:
Many people commented on unity as the reason for standing behind Hezbollah and focusing on Israel and what they have done in reaction to the Hezbollah provocation.
I will argue that this approach will divide us rather than unite us.  We must start doing with is RIGHT not what is politically correct.  What is right is to feel outraged and betrayed by what Hezbollah have instigated.  Even Arab nations are not denying these facts.

Call for Demonstration:If all we say STOP THE ISRAELI WAR ON LEBANON as the slogan committee suggested, and we do not parallel this message with calls for a solution to Hezbollah, namely their disarmament, than we are doing a our country a huge disservice.  How credible and how effective will we be in the eyes of the world if we turn a blind eye to the elephant in the room??

Negotiations:
I am appalled by the suggestion that we should avoid war even if it means 20 years of negotiation with Hezbollah.  Do we want to spend the next 20 years fearful of a militia group that is accountable to no one and that has track record of acting irresponsibly?  What will we do next time Nassrallah decides to show his solidarity with our palestinian brothers and go kidnap and kill a few jews?  Will we vote him out of office?   What will we the next time Iran is cornered over some its nuclear issue and stirs up trouble through Hezbollah? There is NO future in Lebanon, or any country, that has a state within a state.    This a time for us to make a stand against Hezballah, let's not f*** it up like we did with the presidency.

> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:36:17 -0400> From: ssolomon at mit.edu> To: wassimh at hotmail.com> CC: leb-students at lists.stanford.edu; lebanon-articles at mit.edu; alwaysbekind at msn.com> Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people?? One more thing...> > I am actually not using exact statisctics.> > Still, you have to say that (sorry for the ta2ifiyye here) the huge > majority of> shiite people (35% of the Eligible voters in the last elections were shiite> -annhar archive-) and a significant part of the Sunnis (37% of the eligible> voters in the last elections were Sunnis) and some of the rest of the> population (less Maronites than Roman or other Christian sects) do belive that> Hizballah is our only defense against an enemy that we can never trust.> > This is why I said that 30-->50 % of the people would prefer that > hizballah keep> its weapons. (note that shiites have an age pyramid that is wider than > all other> sects at the bottom. So, in terms of population (not voters) they are probably> more than any other sect in Lebanon).> > > Quoting Wassim Heneine <wassimh at hotmail.com>:> > > I agree on most what you said except your statistics in the 2 paragraphs. I> > might be wrong. Please provide supporting document.> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: lebanon-articles-bounces at mit.edu> > [mailto:lebanon-articles-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of Sleiman M Itani> > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:56 PM> > To: rmekary at aol.com> > Cc: lebanon-articles at mit.edu; leb-students at lists.stanford.edu;> > alwaysbekind at msn.com> > Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people?? One more> > thing...> >> > Even if everybody on this list agrees that Hizballah is bad, more than 30%> > (I> > would say even 50%) of the Lebanese people want Hizballah to keep its> > weapons> > just to be a thorn in Israel's side. There is a good number of Lebanese> > people> > who see Israel as an enemy no matter what.> >> > Just remember that Hizballah has the biggest support in Lebanon (as one> > party,> > not a coalition), and even if we don't agree with those people, we have to> > respect their rights. We can't just claim that they don't exist and keep> > them> > unrepresented.> >> > now for what I think ( I think one of the articles posted here said the same> > thing): hizballah's move this time might have been taken as the reason for> > the> > Israeli attacks. I think that some time ago Israel had the green light (or> > an> > invitation) from America, the Arabs and some people in Lebanon. Note that> > hizballah's weapons haven't been a problem for Israel for some time now,> > they> > are just a problem for some people in Lebanon.> >> > I think that it is not only Hizballah's (Syria and Iran) fault, it is also> > the> > fault of the Americans, the Arabs (Saudi arabia, Egypt, Jordan), and> > the people> > in the Lebanese government who knew that many Lebanese people will die> > but still> > wanted revenge against Hizballah.> >> > Plus, without killing a million Lebanese people, Hizballah can't be removed.> > This is true weather Israel or the Lebanese army are trying to do it. If you> > don't know that, then you don't know much about Lebanon. The only way> > to remove> > hizballah is to erode its popularity first (maybe create a shiite party> > that is> > anti syrian but still anti Israeli,) and I think that this is the objective> > of> > the Israeli offensive.> >> > Anyways, these are just my thoughts.> >> > The point is that we want to eat grapes and not to kill the keeper. We need> > to> > have a united front and do this from a humanitarian aspect because there is> > no> > united view on the political aspect. United we stand, departed we fall.> >> > Also, we have to believe in peace, democracy, and in the intellect of the> > Lebanese people. Even if it takes 20 years of negotiations to disarm> > Hizballah,> > that is the right way to do it. We have to learn to show the world unity and> > solve our problems between us, democratically. This is one of the main> > reasons> > for the success of the Israeli governments. Israel has a lot of internal> > problems (including armed groups that the government can't practically> > control), but they don't solve them by destroying themselves.> >> > I just hope that this doesn't last too long. We don't need another 16 years> > of> > war.> >> > Salamat> >> >> > Quoting rmekary at aol.com:> >> >>  Great. Thanks Walid.> >> This being said, how can we take actions and spread the word and ask> >> both of Hizballah and Israel to stop?> >> We shoud mainly ask Hizbalah to go fight Israel in Iran and Syria and> >> to leave Lebanon alone.> >> If we all agree on that, we should state this clearly all over the world.> >> We should literally ask Hizballh to stop fighting Israel on our> >> Lebanese land for an Iranian/ Syrian/ Palestinian cause.> >>> >> Do you all agree?> >> If yes, let's do something about it ASAP.> >>> >> Sincerely,> >> Rania.> >>> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: r_walid at hotmail.com> >> To: rmekary at aol.com; abitdodgy at hotmail.com; kingkassis at hotmail.com;> >> leb-students at lists.stanford.edu; lebanon-articles at mit.edu> >> Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:54 AM> >> Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people?? One more> > thing...> >>> >>   Finally we are waking up and realizing the truth. We are realizing> >> that Hizbullah's ultimate goal was completed long ago, we should now> >> thank them and it is now time for them to let lebanon take all> >> military and other decisions for itself. I am sorry for all the pain> >> the Palestinians are suffering, but i don't see why we also need to> >> pay the price by having a militia that tickles the wasp's nest every> >> once in a while. We, the civilians, always end up being stung the> >> most by these actions.> >>> >>    From: rmekary at aol.com> >> To: abitdodgy at hotmail.com, kingkassis at hotmail.com,> >> leb-students at lists.stanford.edu, lebanon-articles at mit.edu> >> Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people?? One more> > thing...> >> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:32:58 -0400> >> MIME-Version: 1.0> >> Received: from pch.mit.edu ([18.7.21.90]) by> >> bay0-mc3-f13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444);> >> Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:38:11 -0700> >> Received: from pch.mit.edu (pch.mit.edu [127.0.0.1])by pch.mit.edu> >> (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k6JEbgdY024223;Wed, 19 Jul 2006> >> 10:37:43 -0400> >> Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu> >> (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU[18.7.21.83])by pch.mit.edu> >> (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k6JEbfr4024220for> >> <lebanon-articles at PCH.mit.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:37:41 -0400> >> Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com> >> [64.12.137.2])by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with> >> ESMTP idk6JEb4EU017371for <lebanon-articles at mit.edu>; Wed, 19 Jul> >> 2006 10:37:04 -0400 (EDT)> >> Received: from Rmekary at aol.comby imo-m21.mx.aol.com> >> (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id i.37f.84e0bec (45777);Wed, 19 Jul 2006> >> 10:32:59 -0400 (EDT)> >> Received: from FWM-D33 (fwm-d33.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.9])> >> byciaaol-r02.mx.aol.com (v110.15) with ESMTP> >> idMAILCIAAOLR025-b2d144be429a1d6; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:32:58 -0400> >> Received: from 134.174.184.124 by FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> >> (205.188.162.9) withHTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:32:58 -0400> >>> >>  Dear all,> >>> >> I read all the comments.> >> At least we all agree we want Israel to stop its unhumanitarian attacks.> >> I am afraid it is too late now after all the destruction.> >> But let's learn one lesson though: we should also ask for hizballah to> > stop> >> fighting Israel... The more they fight Israel, the more Lebanon is> > destroyed.> >> So why don't we all ask for BOTH parties to stop????> >> Why don't we ask Israel to go fight Iran and Syrian on THEIR land and> >> not ours?> >> Hizballah can get out and fight on an Iranian land... do we really> >> want Hizballah?> >> They are bringing nothing but destruction and war from Israel to Lebanon.> >>> >> We, Lebanese, Christinas and Muslims, shoud all ask for Hizballah to> >> stop their action as well....> >>    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> >> Rania Mekary, Ph.D.> >> Harvard School of Public Health> >> Nutrition Department> >> 655 Huntington Avenue, Building 2> >> Boston, Ma 02115> >> Voice mail: 617-432-6343> >> Fax: 617-432-2435> >> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/researchers/rmekary.html> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> >> -----Original Message-----> >> From: abitdodgy at hotmail.com> >> To: kingkassis at hotmail.com; leb-students at lists.stanford.edu;> >> lebanon-articles at mit.edu> >> Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 1:01 AM> >> Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people?? One more> > thing...> >>> >>    Before this list gets moderated, allow me to say the following:> >> Jimmy, what a bloody pratt you are! You want me to call an apple an> >> apple? Well, I just did. You want to "applaud" Israel for killing> >> countless Lebanese civilians, destroying the economy and> >> infrastructure of our country under the pretence of self defense,> >> then knock your self out, but know this:   No one is condoning the> >> actions of Hezbollah; we?re condemning the heavy handed actions of> >> Israel and its collective punishment of Lebanon and its people, which> >> constitutes of a violation of the Geneva Convention and International> >> Law. Come on, let me hear you clap. The government of Israel said it> >> was Syria and Iran pulling the strings, then let them go bomb Syria> >> and Iran.   I apologize to all recipients of this list for being out> >> of character, but my 85 year old mother had to evacuate right after> >> she had an operation, and our dear Jimmy thinks we should applaud> >> that. My apologies for using derogatory language, but I wish there> >> was a polite way to call an idiot an idiot.   Not only are you> >> senseless, dear Jimmy, but you lack perspective and the analytical> >> capacity to understand that the biggest loser in this conflict is> >> Lebanon and not Hezbollah. The idiocy of morally decrepit people who> >> see nothing wrong with the destruction of Lebanon and the death of> >> its civilians as long as they are under the illusion that Hezbollah> >> are being destroyed is mind boggling. Open your eyes and witness who> >> the real losers are.    Good night!    We're not expressing support> >> for Hezbollah, we are expressing solidarity and support for the> >> Lebanese living through a genocide you have no shame in appluadng.> >>    From: "Jimmy Kassis" <kingkassis at hotmail.com>> >> To: <leb-students at lists.stanford.edu>, <lebanon-articles at mit.edu>> >> Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people?? One more> > thing...> >> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:35:20 -0400> >>> >> Instead of replying with emotionally charged responses, full of> >> personal attacks, I would appreciate if you actually come up with> >> alternative ideas of disarming Hisballah, i.e. curing the deadly> >> cancer, rather than giving it a Tylenol by saying STOP THE WAR!! I> >> want to know what is next?? spend the next 20 years negotiating with> >> them while they build up their capabilities again?> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>      From: kingkassis at hotmail.com> >> To: philippesaad at gmail.com> >> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:22:38 -0400> >> CC: leb-students at lists.stanford.edu; lebanon-articles at mit.edu> >> Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] What is wrong with you people??> >>> >>   Rania, I don?t think I am stating the obvious. After reading all> >> the comments sent out, the ?obvious? is that no one seems to have the> >> balls to speak out against Hezbollah for fear of being labeled> >> unpatriotic. For a condemnation of Hezbollah is perceived as support> >> for Israel which in itself is unpatriotic   Farrah I don?t condone> >> Israel destroying all of Lebanon. 95% of the bombing has been> >> targeted to Hezbollah strongholds. Hezbollah chooses to operate from> >> within civilian areas. That in itself is outrageous; the people> >> supporting Hezbollah should not allow them to launch attacks form> >> hospital rooftops. We should all rise up and speak out against that.> >> Again I don?t condone the destruction of my own country, but I> >> understand the other 5% of the bombing that Israel is doing to send a> >> message to the Lebanese government.   Elias Israel may not defeat> >> them completely but they will sure weaken them to the point where> >> just maybe the Lebanese army can dare to venture to the south and do> >> what is supposed to do and patrol the border. Israeli exacting> >> revenge on the Lebanese??  Why? For what?  You and I both know that> >> Israel only want security on its northern border. They have proven> >> that when they COMPLETELY withdrew in 2000.    Maurice I won?t> >> disappear. Deal with it. I don?t agree with taking the country back> >> 20 years. But I want a solution a permanent one. I am sick and tired> >> of holding Hezbollah?s hand begging them to disarm. At the rate we> >> are moving with Hezbollah and Syria they would have taken us back 20> >> years anyways.     Philippe Before you go questioning my Lebanese> >> identity, my patriotism, and calling me a coward let me tell you> >> something about myself. My house was burned to the ground by the> >> Druze in 1981; my house was then leveled to the ground by the Israeli> >> invasion in 1982 in the mountains. My house again destroyed in Beirut> >> and my mother badly injured from Syrian shelling in 1989. And some> >> more destruction was piled on my house and family from the Lebanese> >> Forces with their war with GMA. Despite all that, I love Lebanon, I> >> love the people, and I believe in a united Lebanon with Christians> >> and Muslims living together as one people. I truly believe in that> >> vision. I don?t believe us as Lebanese have united enough to disarm> >> Hezbollah. Hezbollah being the undisputed puppets of Syria and Iran,> >> I hold them responsible for the death of some of the finest people> >> that Lebanon ever produced from Hariri and Tueini to the rest you> >> know the list I won?t repeat here. After what round of talks were you> >> expecting Hezbollah to disarm? Hezbollah wanted every Arab and> >> Iranian issue resolved before they did anything. Is that what you> >> want? I am tired as stated of listening to their lame ass excuses of> >> why they need to be armed. Yes the death of 250 civilians is> >> horrible, but if the end result is a country free of militias in> >> peace with ALL its neighbors working to build a bright future for its> >> children, then their death is well worth it.> >>> >>   >_______________________________________________> >> >Lebanon-Articles mailing list> >> >Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu> >> >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles> >>     _______________________________________________> >>> >>> >> Lebanon-Articles mailing list> >>> >>> >> Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles> >>   Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures,> >> email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.> >>> >>  _______________________________________________> >> Lebanon-Articles mailing list> >> Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles> >>> >> ________________________________________________________________________> >> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email> >> and IM. All on demand. Always Free.> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Lebanon-Articles mailing list> > Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles> >> > > _______________________________________________> Lebanon-Articles mailing list> Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles
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