[LCM Articles] Lebanese Polls (fwd)

[Jad S Karam]

I like the idea of discussing things openly too. The pro-Syrian demonstration
proved that there is indeed a significant division in thought and views in
Lebanon. This cannot be ignored! However, I am still unclear about the
objective of that demonstration, and am even more unclear about their demands,
and I write this email merely to ask for clarification.
What does it mean to say, "No to outside interference?" Is it refering to
interference on the economic, the political, the millitary level, or all of the
above? I am genuinely wondering. I've also heard phrases such as "We'd rather
have an Arab country, such as Syria, manipulating us on these levels than a
western country." I wonder what this means as well. Does this imply that the
US, France, and other western countries will put-up check-points in Batroon (on
the military level), or using Farha's words (referring to Syria) "Milk us
economically?" In a country where one company may have turnovers in the
billions of dollars, what economic gains can it possibly be looking for? 

Please do not interpret this email as an attack, it is just a genuine request to
clarify my thoughts, because I still do not understand the terms "Pro-Syrian,"
and "No to outside interference." Are they referring to "Pro-Syrian" presence
in Lebanon, or "Pro-Syrian" absolutely? Are they suggesting that we can get rid
of the Syrians on our own when we say "No to outside interference," or is it
Syria's intention to leave Lebanon anyways?

Jad   



Quoting saad mneimneh <saad at engr.smu.edu>:

> I accept the "weak", "illogical", and "unfounded" description...
> It really does not mean anything, because it depends on what assumptions
> and axioms you start with.
> And most of the times, it only depends on what you think (human nature).
> 
> Otherwise, if everything is logical and founded, how come no one can
> convince no one.
> We all have the logic encoded in our brains. It is only a matter of
> assumptions.
> 
> I am not interested in a debate. But I am including a small reply for
> each section.
> And this will be my last email, but I like the idea of discussing things
> openly...
> So I will say: keep up the open minds...
> 
> saad.
> 
> "Jessy E." wrote:
> 
> > With all due respect: (1) it's such a conspiracy theory statement to
> > say that the UN is "unofficially and virtually a US operated
> > organization". The reps of over 50 countries who met in 1945 to put
> > together the U.N Charter were not brought together by your so called
> > "unofficial" U.S organization, they were brought together for an ideal
> > (maybe too ambitious if you want) to achieve and work on international
> > peace and security, yes they may have failed at times, but they are
> > still looked at as an unbiased body. Do not forget the U.N resolutions
> > condemning Israel for the many atrocities against Palestenians--The
> > U.S always vetoed and Israel always declined voting-- And so the U.N
> > was always looked at as a body that at least attempts to put things
> > back in persepective-- We look up to the U>N because they at least
> > have a security resolution that demands the Syrians to leave Lebanon
> > and if it weren't for them none of the Arab countries would dare say
> > such a thing in public.
> >
> > >>>>>>Hmmm... interesting... I VETO.
> > Nothing is ideal in this world. UN failed in every respect, except for
> > few times.
> >   (2)The thousands of young men and women sitting in Martyr square are
> > not holding signs that say "U.S in" they are holding signs that say
> > "Syria out". So why in the world whenever for once we stand up to ask
> > for something that is our absolute right, all of a sudden we are
> > accused of inviting foreign intervention to a "sister" country?  so I
> > really do not see the link here, as for your question why do we seek
> > outside help if we really believe in Freedom and independence? Well
> > that's because my fellow Lebanese if we did indeed learn anything from
> > history that will be that our week quasi-Syrian government will never
> > stand up to Syria and if we get the help of the international
> > community to claim our rights then you know what? By all means, I
> > would a zillion times rather get the help of the Americans to kick the
> > Syrian out, then to stay for another 30 years under occupation with a
> > so called Lebanese Government that does not even consider that we are
> > under Syria's occu! pation and it repeats to us the stupid, cliche,
> > ignorant claim that "Syria is our sister country". Nobody is asking
> > for military intervention, nobody is asking for another occupation, if
> > anything the demonstrations taking place are the most peaceful we have
> > ever seen, apart from the "ignorant few" who carried guns in Tripoli
> > and those ignarant other few who were photographed with knives and
> > tattoos of the Syrian president during the demonstration called for by
> > Nasrallah.
> > >>>>>>>>YA SALAM:
> > >>>>>>>>"I would a zillion times rather get the help of the Americans
> > to kick the Syrian out, then to stay for >>>>>>>>another 30 years
> > under occupation with a so called Lebanese Government that does not
> > even >>>>>>>>consider that we are under Syria's occu!"
> >  Here are a few questions for you to seriously think of: Our bad
> > economy? Syria plays the lead role in it. Do you forget the BILLIONS
> > of dollars Syria makes from Lebanon every year just by maintaining its
> > grip over us?
> >
> > >>>>>>>I don't believe that's an accurate statement. Some of it might
> > be true though. In that case, yes I forget. I do not wish to provide
> > more explanation. Did you ever wonder WHY IN THE WORLD does Syria not
> > maintain an Embassy in Lebanon? Did you ever wonder Why Lebanon does
> > not have an embassy in Syria? How in the world can two countries not
> > maintain diplomatic ties with each other unless there is no respect to
> > the sovereignty of the coutries? I'll tell you why, Syria has ALWAYS
> > and WILL continue to consider Lebanon a part of its own, and until it
> > realizes that we are very far from being Syrian, it will refuse to
> > maitain diplomatic ties by having an official embassy in Lebanon.
> > >>>>>>>I don't see that respect of sovereignty implies that we have to
> > have embassies.
> >  And about the Batrak not taking the Sheikh with him to the
> > U.S?????????? I'm sorry I didn't know they are supposed to escort each
> > other on official visits!!!! since when does the Batrak have to let
> > the Sheikh know "hey buddy wanna catch a flight to the U.S with me?!!"
> > I am sure if the Sheikh desires a trip to the U.S then nothing would
> > stop him, there shouldn't be any pouting I would think!
> > >>>>>>> you totally missed the point here. I certainly did not imply
> > this simplistic meaning.... Otherwise it is very childish on my part.
> >  (3) It really is uncalled for to poke fun at the fact that pple
> > prayed in their own way and brought candles to show unity and support.
> > This was and is the most spontaneous act that all the Lebanese have
> > ever engage in that your remarks serve nothing but to undermine the
> > will of people who felt so enraged at what happened they decided to do
> > something about it instead of staying home and bitching about it.You
> > may think they are wasting their time downtown but to the whole world
> > they have written history and pessimist views like your own have never
> > and will never serve Lebanon. >>>>>>>I do not undermine the will of
> > people. Some of them definitely were in grief and sincere.
> >
> >
> 
> saad.
> 
> --
> Saad Mneimneh
> http://engr.smu.edu/~saad/
> (214)768-3097
> 
> 
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