[LCM Articles] IDF Pilots Deliberately Miss Targets

[Loai Naamani]

Fmr. Israeli Air Force Captain Reports Israeli Pilots Deliberately Missing
Targets Over Concerns of Civilian Casualties


Wednesday, August 9th, 2006

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/09/1422204 

Former Israeli Air Force Captain Yonatan Shapira reports at least two
Israeli fighter pilots have reportedly deliberately missed bombing targets
in Lebanon because they were concerned they were being ordered to bomb
civilians. Yonatan's brother refused to serve in Lebanon earlier this week,
and was sent to jail. [includes rush transcript]

  _____  

Israel is considering a further expansion of its attack on Lebanon amidst a
rising death toll and humanitarian crisis and opponents of the war in Israel
have become increasingly vocal. 

More than 100 demonstrations have taken place across the country since the
fighting began last month. Over 5,000 protesters marched In Tel Aviv last
Saturday in one of the largest demonstrations in Israel since the attacks
began. Protestors called on Israel to negotiate with Hezbollah and
encouraged Israeli soldiers to disobey orders in Lebanon. 

Meanwhile, The Observer newspaper recently reported that at least two
Israeli fighter pilots have deliberately missed bombing targets in Lebanon
because they were concerned they were being ordered to bomb civilians. The
Observer also reported that a senior commander who has been involved in air
attacks in Lebanon has raised concerns that the air force's actions might be
considered "war crimes." 

Yonatan Shapira joins us on the line from Israel -- he is a former Captain
in the Israeli Air Force reserves. In 2003, Yonatan initiated the group of
Israeli Air Force pilots who refused to fly attack missions that might risk
civilian population in the Palestinian territories. He is also the
co-founder of the organization Combatants for Peace. Yonatan's brother
refused to serve in Lebanon earlier this week, and was sent to jail. 

We also speak with Dan Tamir, an intelligence Officer with the IDF's
Reserves and an activist with Yesh Gvul - an Israeli peace group that
supports soldiers who refuse military assignments. 

*	Yonatan Shapira, a former Captain in the Israeli Air Force reserves.
In 2003 Yonatan initiated the group of Israeli Air Force pilots who refused
to fly attack missions on Palestinian territories. He is also the co-founder
of the organization Combatants for Peace <http://www.combatantsforpeace.org>
. 
*	Dan Tamir, activist with Yesh Gvul <http://www.yeshgvul.org>  - an
Israeli peace group that supports soldiers who refuse military assignments.
He is an intelligence Officer with the Israeli Defense Force Reserves. 

  _____  

RUSH TRANSCRIPT 

AMY GOODMAN: Yonatan Shapira is with us, on the line from Israel. He’s a
former captain in the Israeli Air Force reserve. In 2003, Yonatan initiated
a group of Israeli Air Force pilots who refused to fly attack missions that
might risk civilian populations in the Palestinian territories. He’s
co-founder of the group Combatants for Peace. Yonatan’s brother refused to
serve in Lebanon and earlier this week was sent to jail. We welcome you back
to Democracy Now! Yonatan Shapira was in New York in the last few weeks, and
we had him on Democracy Now! Welcome, Yonatan. 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: Good morning. The line is not so good, but I can hear you. 

AMY GOODMAN: What's happened to your brother? 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: I can’t hear you now. 

AMY GOODMAN: What has happened to your brother? 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: The line is not working. 

AMY GOODMAN: Can you tell us about your brother? 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: Yeah. If you can hear me, my brother just entered to jail
yesterday afternoon, after telling his commander -- after asking him why he
refused to go to Lebanon, my brother told him that he's doing so for the
security of the citizens of Israel. And my brother is also a member of
Combatants for Peace, and by now, we have two members of our organization
sitting in jail for refusing to participate in this war in Lebanon. On June
5, the total number of refuseniks that are sitting in jail for refusing to
go to Lebanon are five, and we have many who are waiting for trials and
waiting for being sent to jail. 

AMY GOODMAN: We're also joined on the phone by Dan Tamir. He is with the
Israeli peace group, Yesh Gvul, a group that supports soldiers who refuse
military assignments. He's an intelligence officer with the Israeli Defense
Force reserves. We welcome you to Democracy Now! from Jerusalem. 

DAN TAMIR: Good morning, New York. Good morning, democracy. 

AMY GOODMAN: It is very good to have you with us. You're an intelligence
officer with the Israeli Defense Force reserves. Are you going to serve in
this war with Lebanon? 

DAN TAMIR: Until now, I have not been called personally to take part in this
war, and I hope I won't be called personally, but there are many other
officers and soldiers who were called to this war and, as Yonatan said
before, many have said that they are not going to take part in what they see
is an unnecessary bloodshed. 

AMY GOODMAN: What would it mean if you refused? 

DAN TAMIR: Well, I have already twice told my commanders that I’m not
willing to carry out such mobilization orders. The first time was in 2001,
and the second time in 2004. That time, it was considering going into
military regime at the Occupied Territories in Judea and Samaria.
Personally, I refused twice, and I was sent twice to jail for one month
every time, although it doesn't have to be like this. Some people just say,
“We are not going,” and their commanders just let them go. I must emphasize
maybe that going to jail is not some kind of an aim for itself. Some people
are sent to jail, but many others are being just dismissed. This is why the
actual number of refuseniks, of people who refuse to take actions, is
actually much higher than the number of people actually sitting in jail. 

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean? 

DAN TAMIR: I mean that there are many people, many soldiers and officers,
who say, “We are not going,” and since the Israeli military is the -- how
should I put it? -- doesn’t have the strongest disciplines, many people are
just being dismissed by their officers telling them, “Okay, don't come this
year. We'll call you in a few months,” just in order not to make such a big
fuss out of this whole issue. 

AMY GOODMAN: Are you willing to go to jail again? 

DAN TAMIR: If I would be again given any kind of an order to do things I
find illegal, immoral and useless, I would rather go to jail, rather than do
such things, which are contradicting the basic interest of the state of
Israel. 

AMY GOODMAN: Do you have an estimate of the numbers of soldiers or people in
the reserves who are saying no? 

DAN TAMIR: Well, I can give you a few fixed numbers. Since the beginning of
the Second Intifada, that means in the last five years, we had at least 160
people who were refusing and were sent to jail. We know about many others
who declared their refusal but were not sent to any kind of incarceration or
imprisonment. And we assume there are many, many others who found all kinds
of excuses, beginning with physical problems, medical problems and ending
with psychological problems or any kind of other excuses, not to go into
military service. So, I estimate it in the few thousands, maybe even more. 

AMY GOODMAN: Yonatan Shapira, you are a former captain in the Israeli Air
Force reserves, your brother now in jail, jailed this week. There's an
article in the New York Times today, a very sweeping article, headlined
"Left or Right, Israelis are Pro-War." Your response. 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: Yes, first of all, it's very sad that indeed the majority
of Israelis are now supporting the war. I think there are many reasons for
that. Probably people are in some condition of being fear-stricken by the
institutions. They don't get all the information. The media here is very,
very biased. They don't see what you can see in the Amy Goodman show in New
York, many thousands of kilometers from the Middle East. They see mostly
what the Israeli military propaganda and the Israeli government wants them
to see, and it's very sad, and I think this is part of the reason that we
see this kind of support. 

But it's important for me to say that, for example, last Saturday, we were
10,000 people in the center of Tel Aviv, demonstrating together, Jews and
Arabs together, shouting that we refuse to be enemies. And we are going to
do another demonstration next Saturday in front of the jail, where my
brother and his friends are sitting, and I’m inviting all the international
media to see what these people and the resistance in Israel to this war is
doing. I can tell you some facts and some things that happened also within
the Air Force, if you are interested. 

AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead. 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: Yeah. I just spoke to some friends in the Air Force, an
F-15 pilot, and he told me an interesting thing. He told me that since the
third day of this war, they are waiting for Bush to stop the war. They also
understand that they are playing some kind of role in this whole big war of
interests between major forces, not just Israel and not just Hezbollah. 

Also he tells me that they are not counting anymore on intelligence.
Sometimes they see -- you know, they get the coordinates, and they see a
house in their target, and they prefer to shoot beside the house, because
they don't know. Maybe there are civilians, maybe there are innocent people
sleeping there. Sometimes this intelligence are being based on the fact that
Israel told those civilians to evacuate their villages, and then afterwards,
they just tell the pilots to bomb some houses then. And I know that more and
more pilots are feeling very, very uncomfortable with this situation. And we
are waiting for the first pilot to refuse to do these crimes and to help us,
Israelis and Arabs in this region, to stop this crazy war. 

AMY GOODMAN: Now, Yonatan Shapira, this is very significant, what the
Guardian newspaper was talking about and also quoting you about this: at
least two Israeli fighter pilots deliberately missing bombing targets in
Lebanon, because they were concerned they were being ordered to bomb
civilians. 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: Yeah, I know that -- I guess there are several of them. I
spoke with one of them, who told me especially of one case that he just got
a target -- it was a house on a hill -- and he just didn't want to shoot at
the house, and he shot beside the house, and later on, the commanders told
him that it’s okay. And my question is, you know, if they can give pilots a
target, and later on when the pilot is not shooting the house and telling
him that it's okay, you know, what is all this idea behind those missions,
if, you know, you can shoot the house, you can not shoot the house? I think
there is a problem, you know, spilling behind all these missions that these
pilots are getting. 

And just so you know, as pilot, I’m not a fighter pilot. I was a helicopter
pilot, and I didn't shoot anyone, but I know, just like most of the people
can understand, a fighter pilot is flying up in the sky, thousands of feet
above the ground. He cannot see people. He cannot see -- he can maybe see
some dots, something on the screen inside the cockpit, but he cannot know
whether there are civilians or enemies, or, you know, that the truck is
bringing missiles or bringing kids. And if now we see that pilots cannot
trust the system, I think it's a sign that maybe, maybe in the near future,
some of them will speak out, not just quietly and continue to serve, but to
speak out to the world to help us to stop this war. 

AMY GOODMAN: Yonatan Shapira, you come from an Air Force family, from an Air
Force neighborhood in a suburb of Tel Aviv. What is the response? I mean,
your father served, your brothers, now one of them in jail. 

YONATAN SHAPIRA: You know, it's really, really not easy to be now in Israel
against the war. My family, they're near to Tel Aviv. My parents’ house is
full with two families that came from the north, one from Haifa and one from
a village next to Nahariya, where they were hit by a Katyusha in their
garden. And all these people are, you know, given shelter in the center and
now waiting for this war to be end. 

And I know that also some of them understand that this war is not going to
end if we don't do something about that. And although the majority, as you
just mentioned, is against us, is against the resistance in Israel, in favor
of the war, we must do it also for these people, because they don't have all
the information. They don't have the possibility to see the reality as -- 

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you both for being with us, Dan Tamir, activist
with Yesh Gvul; and Yonatan Shapira, one of the co-founders of Combatants
for Peace. His brother this week was jailed for refusing to fight in the
Lebanon war.

www.democracynow.org

 

 

 

 

http://www.lebnanews.com/2006/08/another_idf_obj.html

 


07 August 2006


ANOTHER IDF OBJECTOR JAILED


Lebnanews speaks to the second Israeli refusnik of the 2006 conflict

In 1982, it took over half a year for Israeli officers and soldiers to begin
refusing draft and orders to enter into Lebanon. In the beginning of the
Al-Aqsa intifada, several months elapsed before the first letter of defiance
was handed in. But in 2006, three weeks into the war, First Sergeant Zohar
Milchgrub is entering imprisonment today (Sunday) for refusing to be drafted
to a reserve force set to enter Lebanon . He is the second Israeli soldier
in a week to become a conscientious objector to the new war. We spoke to him
after the anti-war rally in Tel Aviv on Saturday.

(picture of Zohar Milchgrub)

Our first question would be to which part of the army you belong.

An ordinary infantry combat unit. 

When did you first decide to refuse to draft? 

I made the decision to refuse further service during my active service in
the IDF. It was very clear for me that i won't be heading back to the
Occupied Territories. The decision to refuse to serve in this war was as
natural as refusing to serve in the Territories. 

Would you say that the approach of the Israeli public to this war is
different to its approach to the occupation?

First of all, the pro-war sentiments and the exhilaration in the media have
definetly had their effect. Society is following the call without any qualms
or reservations. Even people who consider themselves to be on the Left, my
own family. 

Are people more motivated to serve in Lebanon than in the OPT? 

 

Absolutely. A close friend of mine is in Lebanon with his unit as we speak.
You need to remember that the breach of [Israeli] sovereignty, the raid over
the border, all this was very problematic. However, we need to be looking at
the bigger picture, and the bigger picture is that Lebanon is a country that
we should be talking to. If we have even the slightest hope of ending all of
this, we need to speak to Lebanon , and we need to speak even to Hezbollah.
We really do believe that this is possible – proper Lebanese sovereignity on
all Lebanese lands and a peace agreement with Lebanon which, God willing,
will be linked somehow to peace agreements with Syria and with the
Palestinians.

How is the Left camp in Israël responding to the war?

I don't want to speak in the name of the entire Left – and, anyway, I think
the real Left are the people here, at this rally. Sadly, people on the
Israeli Left need to see casualties before they start demonstrating against
the war. 

Israeli casualties?

Well, I wouldn't want to say that they don't care about other casualties,
but there is a greater sensitivity to Israeli casualties, which is a great
pity. Nevertheless, we see people joining and our numbers growing every week
– this is a part of an ongoing war: people are beginning to sober up from
their illusions. 

How long do you expect to spend in prison?

As less as possible, maybe around a month. If the war won't be over until
then I'll leave the country. I was planning to commence studies in Germany
this year. 

Some of our readers would doubtlessly want to write to you, and you will not
be able to respond to them from prison. Would you like to say something to
them now?

Even before I committed the actual act of refusing to serve, I emailed all
my friends all over the world – in Germany , in Italy , in the States and
even in Japan. I told them that what I am going to do in the nearest days is
thanks to that wonderful support they've always given me. Almost immediately
I got numerous responses of encouragement and solidarity. This is very
important to us: we may like think we can do anything on our own, but the
international support is wonderful and I'm deeply grateful to all those who
support us. 

 
Dimi Reider, Tel Aviv

 

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