[Cad] [motors, power ee, & evs] (Siemens) Electric aircraft: World-record (50kg:260 kW contiunuous) electric motor makes first flight. also, electric dirigibles from 1885?!

Nancy Ouyang nancy.ouyang at gmail.com
Tue Jul 12 14:39:01 EDT 2016 

wtf is GA
why is it cheating to use crazy materials / power for first-in-class motor,
&
are you giving the example of 4 kw to contrast with their 5.2 kw
techiniques, or to ...?

if people write lengthier emails, it will help silly me understand what you
are talking about <3


~~~
my personal blog <http://www.orangenarwhals.com>, orangenarwhals

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:33 PM, damon vanderlind <damonvl at gmail.com> wrote:

> The batteries aren't that bad... people just need to stop caring if they
> can fly 500 miles.
>
> Siemens kind of cheats for their motors, though I think they are very
> nice. They use hyperco 50 steel and really high switching frequencies. For
> now, it prices the devices outside of GA even.  4 kw/kg can be built very
> cheap, without rare materials and 1000 hours of wire edm time.
>
> Cheers
> --damon
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Josh Vekhter <vekhterjr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, perhaps electric planes would actually be a reasonable application
>> of that crazy aluminum galium thang the Marines are working on?
>>
>> Certianly makes more sense on an infrastructure level than fuel cell cars.
>>
>> Energy density of the fuel is supposed to be very good, idk anything
>> about how much a 100 kw hydrogen fuel cell would weigh.
>>
>> Could always make hindenburg 2.0 :P.  Fuel could generate lift!
>> On Jul 12, 2016 8:05 AM, "Lochie Ferrier" <lochieferrier at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Regardless of motor advances, batteries will still be primary issue due
>>> to the mass fraction they need to take up. Even with a major improvement in
>>> aero (co-flow airfoil
>>> <http://www6.miami.edu/acfdlab/publications/AIAA-2015-0772.pdf>, or BLI
>>> <http://web.mit.edu/drela/Public/N+3/Uranga2014_compressed.pdf>), the
>>> L/D is still nowhere near what it needs to be for airliners, which are
>>> majority of aviation emissions. This is where the whole Musk electric
>>> jet <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musk_electric_jet> thing gets very
>>> dodgy, or just beyond what we think is possible atm. To go cross country at
>>> 600 Wh/kg, you need a L/D of 30, for something that is *supersonic. *Play
>>> around with the numbers <http://web.mit.edu/lochie/www/erange/main.html>,
>>> and you'll hopefully see what I mean.
>>>
>>> There's very little way of getting around the fact that batteries are
>>> approximately 100x heavier than kerosene on energy basis.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 at 18:46 Nancy Ouyang <nancy.ouyang at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sweet pdf, though lol loweffort response :p yes ofc batteries
>>>>
>>>> I believe the PDF is 2012 (why oh why don't people put date writtens or
>>>> at least year written in their documents)
>>>>
>>>> The few electric motors available toda*y for aircraft propulsion *have
>>>>> a power output of *less than 100 kW*. Large electric motors are also
>>>>> used in trains, ships and submarines, but here the mass is less important.
>>>>> Today it seems to be possible to build electric motors having a *specific
>>>>> mass of about 2 to 4 kW/kg*. This compares favorably with the
>>>>> specific mass of larger turboshaft and turbofan engines at cruise power
>>>>> (see Figure 13 and Figure 14). *Future developments* may extend the
>>>>> range of electric motors to values of *up to 8 kW/kg*, but there is a
>>>>> strong need for the development of lightweight electric motors,
>>>>> specifically designed for application in aircraft.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so this gives context to why siemen's motor is cool.
>>>>
>>>> 260 kW / 50 kg =* 5.2 @ 260 kW* or roughly *orange* circle:
>>>>
>>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>> pg 12
>>>>
>>>> *does anyone know what the comparable previous weight would be before
>>>> this motor? *this one is 50kg &  if this is a lot less than before,
>>>> it's just another notch in reducing weight to make weightspace for battery
>>>> packs perhaps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Range sensitivities Equation 11 shows that in order to achieve maximum
>>>>> range for a given aircraft mass A lightweight aircraft is more sensible to
>>>>> a change in mass than a heavy aircraft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I love their *"let's think through how we'd make this work" thought
>>>> experiment* section:
>>>>
>>>> Applying this simulation model to a specific aircraft allows
>>>>> determining the possible performance and the technology improvements
>>>>> required to achieve the desired results
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The range of the original aircraft with 32 passengers is about 1200 km.
>>>>> With a reduced payload of 28 passengers the maximum range is approximately
>>>>> 2200 km
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Using current (2012) technology this aircraft would reach a range of
>>>>> 202 km. The flight time would be about 40 minutes. Cruise speed would be
>>>>> about 300 km/h. If an additional reserve of 30 minutes for holding at the
>>>>> destination airport would have to be considered, the practical range would
>>>>> drop to 50 km.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The next modification would reduce the empty mass of the aircraft by
>>>>> 20%. This would require introducing extreme lightweight design features
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This step improves the battery technology by doubling the mass specific
>>>>> energy * E . *Such an improvement is quite well possible with future
>>>>> development of Li-S battery systems within the next 15 years*. This
>>>>> modification would double the range to 711 km so that it at least comes
>>>>> into the order of the kerosene based aircraft. Nevertheless, there is still
>>>>> a factor of 3 in range missing. In order to achieve the range of the
>>>>> original aircraft, the battery technology would have to be improved by this
>>>>> factor, i.e. a factor of 6 compared to todays (2012) technology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore new infrastructure to replace and recharge the batteries on
>>>>> each airport would be required to make such an aircraft feasible
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Comparing the payload-range characteristics of the baseline turboprop
>>>>> aircraft and the battery powered electric aircraft shows that trading
>>>>> payload for fuel respectively battery has a very beneficial effect in case
>>>>> of kerosene because of its high specific energy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If, on the other hand, the final extremely modified aircraft 328-LBME2
>>>>> would be equipped with a current turbo-prop engine, its fuel consumption
>>>>> would be as low as 1.5 liters per passenger per 100 km, which is about half
>>>>> that of the baseline aircraft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (This last stat is mostly due to how light and dragless the author's
>>>> thought-experiment is, I think.)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> --Nancy
>>>>
>>>> ~~~
>>>> my personal blog <http://www.orangenarwhals.com>, orangenarwhals
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:48 AM, Lochie Ferrier <
>>>> lochieferrier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The batteries though. The batteries are what makes it super hard
>>>>> <http://www.mh-aerotools.de/company/paper_14/MP-AVT-209-09.pdf>.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 at 16:31 Nancy Ouyang <nancy.ouyang at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> www.siemens.com/press/electric-aircraft
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *"This is the first time that an electric aircraft in
>>>>>>> the quarter-megawatt performance class has flown."*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiu8TFnXYFY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a big leap for the electrification of aviation, an Extra Aircraft
>>>>>>> aerobatic plane performed its maiden flight with an electric powertrain.
>>>>>>> The crucial component was a world record motor from Siemens. Weighing a
>>>>>>> mere 50 kilograms, the motor has an output of 260 kilowatts, resulting in
>>>>>>> an unparalleled power-to-weight ratio.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Datasheet:
>>>>>> http://www.siemens.com/press/pool/de/feature/2015/corporate/2015-03-electromotor/factsheet-erstflug-weltrekordmotor-d.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://transportevolved.com/2016/07/08/siemens-showcases-brand-new-electric-motor-thats-super-light-super-powerful-and-perfect-for-electric-airplanes/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, electric motors have long been used in model planes, but
>>>>>>> their use outside the 1:14th scale aeromodelling arena has been
>>>>>>> somewhat limited due to the mechanics of making a sufficiently large,
>>>>>>> powerful, & lightweight electric motor. And while we’ve seen some very
>>>>>>> successful electric planes take to the sky, most have been custom-made,
>>>>>>> super-lightweight affairs which while impressive, have yet to make their
>>>>>>> mark on a wider scale.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many of the benefits of electric motive power for aircraft are ones
>>>>>>> that any EV driver will be familiar with: quieter, lower maintenance,
>>>>>>> greater efficiency. Benefits that are shared with the community too in this
>>>>>>> case – as with increasing air travel areas around airports have become
>>>>>>> increasingly polluted – both by noise and by noxious residues from burning
>>>>>>> fossil fuels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But there are also other benefits that are deeply exciting for
>>>>>>> aeronautical engineers and pilots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unlike fossil fuel powered engines, electric motors really don’t
>>>>>>> care which way is up. They operate the same upside-down as they do the
>>>>>>> right way up — they don’t stall and fuss with fuelling issues when you turn
>>>>>>> them over. They also perform the same at 40,000 feet as they do at 4 feet.
>>>>>>> Traditional engines require complex mixture and timing adjustments to keep
>>>>>>> them performing well in the thin atmosphere in which they spend much of
>>>>>>> their lives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> about the airplane,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Based on a thoroughly modern, but not deeply exceptional structure –
>>>>>>> with a mixture of a steel fuselage and carbon fibre wings, the Extra is
>>>>>>> itself a popular aerobatic model
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Extra 330LE, which weighs nearly 1,000 kilograms, serves as a
>>>>>>> flying test bed for the new propulsion system. As an aerobatic airplane,
>>>>>>> it's particularly well suited for taking the components to their limits,
>>>>>>> testing them and enhancing their design.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the future
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Electric drives are scalable, and Siemens and Airbus will be using
>>>>>>> the record-setting motor as a basis for developing regional airliners
>>>>>>> powered by hybrid-electric propulsion systems. "By 2030, we expect to see
>>>>>>> initial aircraft with up to 100 passengers and a range of around 1,000
>>>>>>> kilometers," explained Anton.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love this anecdote about intelligent analysis tools in CAD. (*hi
>>>>>> cad-discuss, that's why you're cc'd :]* )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The end-shield for the motor, for example, was analyzed using a *software
>>>>>>> package* that divided the component into over 100,000 elements,
>>>>>>> each of which was individually further stress-analyzed and subject to*
>>>>>>> iterative improvement loops.* Eventually, the custom software spat
>>>>>>> out a filigree structure that weighs 4.9kg instead of the 10.5kg from the
>>>>>>> previous design.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> more about the motor
>>>>>> http://phys.org/news/2015-04-world-record-electric-motor-aircraft.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Siemens researchers have developed a new type of electric motor that,
>>>>>>> with a weight of just 50 kilograms, delivers a* continuous output
>>>>>>> of about 260 kilowatts – five times more than comparable drive systems.*
>>>>>>> The motor has been *specially designed* for use in aircraft. Thanks
>>>>>>> to its record-setting power-to-weight ratio, larger aircraft with *takeoff
>>>>>>> weights of up to two tons* will now be able to* use electric drives
>>>>>>> for the first time.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New simulation techniques and sophisticated lightweight construction
>>>>>>> enabled the drive system to achieve a unique weight-to-performance ratio of
>>>>>>> five kilowatts (kW) per kilogram (kg). *The electric motors of
>>>>>>> comparable strength that are used in industrial applications deliver less
>>>>>>> than one kW per kg. The performance of the drive systems used in electric
>>>>>>> vehicles is about two kW per kg.* Since the new motor delivers its
>>>>>>> record-setting performance at rotational speeds of just* 2,500
>>>>>>> revolutions per minute, it can drive propellers directly, without the use
>>>>>>> of a transmission.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the next step, the Siemens researchers will boost output further.
>>>>>>> "We're convinced that the use of hybrid-electric drives in regional
>>>>>>> airliners with 50 to 100 passengers is a real medium-term possibility,"
>>>>>>> said Anton.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this might be what the motor looks like? not sure
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/j3cNLsN-eCM?t=31s
>>>>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> about the Siemens and electric dirigibles (?!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Siemens current motor is sufficient to power a small 4-seater
>>>>>>> aircraft by itself. Indeed, it would be “quite racy” suggest Siemens in
>>>>>>> that application. And Siemens is keen to point out that the motor is *nearing
>>>>>>> the power requirements for small regional airliners. *Of course if
>>>>>>> anyone would know about aeronautical electric motors it really ought to be
>>>>>>> Siemens, given that it was its electric motor that (back in 1881) powered
>>>>>>> the *first electric dirigible*
>>>>>>> <https://archive.org/details/lesballonsdirig00tissgoog>*.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also check out this amazing scan of an* 1885 book about electric
>>>>>> dirigibles*. (archive.org's ebook software is on-point!)
>>>>>> https://archive.org/details/lesballonsdirig00tissgoog
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dirigibles: application of electricity to air navigation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> by Gaston Tissandier
>>>>>>> Published 1885
>>>>>>> Book digitized by Google from the library of the University of
>>>>>>> Michigan and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> --Nancy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>
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