From ccoleman at MIT.EDU Mon Mar 8 04:01:34 2004 From: ccoleman at MIT.EDU (Charles P Coleman) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 04:01:34 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] SP4 Resources Message-ID: Students- The GTAs are posting two documents that will assist you in completing SP4. The first document, SP4 Basic Design & Analysis Mon 8-Mar-04.pdf, will introduce you to the calculations, units, and analysis you can use to do preliminary sizing of your competition aircraft. It also introduces a method to estimate your competition performance. The second document, SP4 Assignment Notes Mon 8-Mar-04.pdf, sketches the calculations that are necessary to complete the SP4 assignment. I hope this helps. Questions and comments to me. Best- Charles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/unified-mailman/attachments/20040308/1d565a95/attachment.htm From howiek at MIT.EDU Mon Mar 8 12:53:05 2004 From: howiek at MIT.EDU (Howard Kleinwaks) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:53:05 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] fluids tests available Message-ID: Students, The fluids test is now available for pick up. Joe B was a 60. -Howie From chipd at MIT.EDU Mon Mar 8 13:14:59 2004 From: chipd at MIT.EDU (Carl Dietrich) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:14:59 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Reminder about Tutoring Message-ID: Students, If any of you feel like you are falling behind in Unified, or if you just feel like you might benefit from some extra instruction, we are more than happy to arrange to provide tutors. Just let either me or Howie know and we will try to make whatever arrangements are necessary. -Carl ___________________________________________________________ Carl Dietrich MIT Rocket Team Unified Engineering Graduate TA MIT Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics Office: 33-104 Phone: 617-253-2274 ___________________________________________________________ From howiek at MIT.EDU Mon Mar 8 17:13:01 2004 From: howiek at MIT.EDU (Howard Kleinwaks) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:13:01 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] flying tomorrow morning Message-ID: Students, In order to have as much flight time as possible, we have reserved Johnson from 7-9am tomorrow. ROTC should not be showing up until 8am, so we have the first hour to ourselves. Col Young will meet people in the gelb lab at 6:45 am (I know its early, but this is the only time we can be guaranteed use of Johnson) to head over to fly. Please take this opportunity to fly your planes. -Howie From chipd at MIT.EDU Mon Mar 8 17:49:33 2004 From: chipd at MIT.EDU (Carl Dietrich) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:49:33 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Important note for this week's SP Message-ID: Flight training early tomorrow morning! Please read below; it appears that tomorrow (Tuesday) from 7-8am is the only opportunity to have exclusive use of Johnson (without ROTC). We strongly encourage all pilots who have not had an opportunity to fly (and all teams who have yet to take data) to show up for these early morning practice sessions! -Carl >X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:27:13 -0500 >To: ccoleman at mit.edu, howiek at mit.edu, chipd at mit.edu, cengel at mit.edu, > ajw61185 at mit.edu, ahill at mit.edu >From: Pete Young >Subject: Fwd: Re: Johnson availability Tuesday/Wednesday >X-Spam-Score: -10.2 >X-Spam-Flag: NO >X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) > >Folks, the window of opportunity is now 1 day - tomorrow. > >Pete Young > >>X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 >>X-Sender: slett at hesiod (Unverified) >>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:08:32 -0500 >>To: Pete Young >>From: Sandy Lett >>Subject: Re: Johnson availability Tuesday/Wednesday >>X-Spam-Score: -10.2 >>X-Spam-Flag: NO >>X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) >> >>Pete, >> >>This is true for Tuesday (3/9) and Thursday (3/11). Army ROTC will >>be in Johnson from 7-9 AM on Wednesday (3/10). >> >>Sandy >> >>At 04:44 PM 3/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>>Folks - I've just talked to Sandy Lett and advised her that we're >>>not able to take the 9-10am slots. The story now is this: we can >>>use Johnson from 7-8am without interference, both days; but ROTC >>>(in lesser numbers than today) may show up at 8am. Whether or not >>>we can coexist with them is an open question but >>>at least we'd have an hour, guaranteed. >>> >>>I'm willing to be in the labs by 6:45 and leaving for Johnson by >>>6:50. Please see if students are able to make these times. I'll >>>bring stopwatches and a measuring tape to allow measurements. >>students don't take the 7-8am slots, there's NO guarantee that they >>>will have any other opportunities!> >>>-- >>>Peter W. Young, Col., USAF (ret.) >>>Senior Lecturer >>>Director of CDIO Initiatives >>>phone: (617) 253-5340, fax (617) 253-4002 >>> >>>Massachusetts Institute of Technology >>>Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics >>>77 Massachusetts Ave., 33-240 >>>Cambridge MA 02139 > >-- >Peter W. Young, Col., USAF (ret.) >Senior Lecturer >Director of CDIO Initiatives >phone: (617) 253-5340, fax (617) 253-4002 > >Massachusetts Institute of Technology >Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics >77 Massachusetts Ave., 33-240 >Cambridge MA 02139 > ___________________________________________________________ Carl Dietrich MIT Rocket Team Unified Engineering Graduate TA MIT Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics Office: 33-104 Phone: 617-253-2274 ___________________________________________________________ From drela at MIT.EDU Mon Mar 8 19:19:21 2004 From: drela at MIT.EDU (Mark Drela) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:19:21 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] F18 reading: Anderson 9.6, 9.7 Message-ID: <200403090019.i290JLu7001437@orville.mit.edu> From chipd at MIT.EDU Mon Mar 8 21:40:14 2004 From: chipd at MIT.EDU (chipd@MIT.EDU) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:40:14 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Fwd: Re: Important note for this week's SP Message-ID: <1078800014.404d2e8ed8ddf@webmail.mit.edu> If you plan on flying tomorrow, please make sure that your transmitter is charged or charging tonight. -Carl ----- Forwarded message from pwyoung at ix.netcom.com ----- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:59:00 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: pwyoung at ix.netcom.com Reply-To: pwyoung at ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Important note for this week's SP To: Carl Dietrich Carl - I've noticed that quite a few transmitters are not charged. If the students get to them tonight and charge them, they'll be ok. Otherwise, not. COl YOung -----Original Message----- From: Carl Dietrich Sent: Mar 8, 2004 5:49 PM To: unified at MIT.EDU Subject: Important note for this week's SP Flight training early tomorrow morning! Please read below; it appears that tomorrow (Tuesday) from 7-8am is the only opportunity to have exclusive use of Johnson (without ROTC). We strongly encourage all pilots who have not had an opportunity to fly (and all teams who have yet to take data) to show up for these early morning practice sessions! -Carl >X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:27:13 -0500 >To: ccoleman at mit.edu, howiek at mit.edu, chipd at mit.edu, cengel at mit.edu, > ajw61185 at mit.edu, ahill at mit.edu >From: Pete Young >Subject: Fwd: Re: Johnson availability Tuesday/Wednesday >X-Spam-Score: -10.2 >X-Spam-Flag: NO >X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) > >Folks, the window of opportunity is now 1 day - tomorrow. > >Pete Young > >>X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 >>X-Sender: slett at hesiod (Unverified) >>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:08:32 -0500 >>To: Pete Young >>From: Sandy Lett >>Subject: Re: Johnson availability Tuesday/Wednesday >>X-Spam-Score: -10.2 >>X-Spam-Flag: NO >>X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.28 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) >> >>Pete, >> >>This is true for Tuesday (3/9) and Thursday (3/11). Army ROTC will >>be in Johnson from 7-9 AM on Wednesday (3/10). >> >>Sandy >> >>At 04:44 PM 3/8/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>>Folks - I've just talked to Sandy Lett and advised her that we're >>>not able to take the 9-10am slots. The story now is this: we can >>>use Johnson from 7-8am without interference, both days; but ROTC >>>(in lesser numbers than today) may show up at 8am. Whether or not >>>we can coexist with them is an open question but >>>at least we'd have an hour, guaranteed. >>> >>>I'm willing to be in the labs by 6:45 and leaving for Johnson by >>>6:50. Please see if students are able to make these times. I'll >>>bring stopwatches and a measuring tape to allow measurements. >>students don't take the 7-8am slots, there's NO guarantee that they >>>will have any other opportunities!> >>>-- >>>Peter W. Young, Col., USAF (ret.) >>>Senior Lecturer >>>Director of CDIO Initiatives >>>phone: (617) 253-5340, fax (617) 253-4002 >>> >>>Massachusetts Institute of Technology >>>Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics >>>77 Massachusetts Ave., 33-240 >>>Cambridge MA 02139 > >-- >Peter W. Young, Col., USAF (ret.) >Senior Lecturer >Director of CDIO Initiatives >phone: (617) 253-5340, fax (617) 253-4002 > >Massachusetts Institute of Technology >Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics >77 Massachusetts Ave., 33-240 >Cambridge MA 02139 > ___________________________________________________________ Carl Dietrich MIT Rocket Team Unified Engineering Graduate TA MIT Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics Office: 33-104 Phone: 617-253-2274 ___________________________________________________________ ----- End forwarded message ----- From howiek at MIT.EDU Tue Mar 9 08:57:54 2004 From: howiek at MIT.EDU (Howard Kleinwaks) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:57:54 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] signals book Message-ID: Students, The signals book that will be used this term is Signals and Systems, by Oppenheim and Willsky, not the Siebert book. I knwo that the Siebert book is currently on the Spring Signals website, but the website has not been updated (if you look at the date, its from Spring 2003). Sorry for the confusion. -Howie From chipd at MIT.EDU Tue Mar 9 16:37:33 2004 From: chipd at MIT.EDU (chipd@MIT.EDU) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:37:33 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Fwd: Unified flying Wednesday - please read Message-ID: <1078868253.404e391d666d4@webmail.mit.edu> Important note from Col. Young about flying tomorrow morning (see below). Note: as of yet, there are no contingency plans as eluded to in the message below. All teams who have not yet compiled data for the SP should be there tomorrow morning. If your plane is not in a flyable condition, you may take data off of another trial THAT YOU WITNESS (do not just copy another team's data). Please try to get there early enough to complete all flights BEFORE 8am. -Carl ----- Forwarded message from Pete Young ----- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:21:30 -0500 From: Pete Young Reply-To: Pete Young Subject: Unified flying Wednesday - please read To: ccoleman at mit.edu, howiek at mit.edu, chipd at mit.edu, cengel at mit.edu, ajw61185 at mit.edu, ahill at mit.edu Folks - we had a good day today (Tuesday) flying both in and outdoors, but I estimate only 3-4 teams were able to get measurable flight data. That leaves Wednesday as the last day to get flight data before the Thursday PS due date. I just talked to the Army ROTC folks and they're planning to use the Johnson track area, both the infield as well as the outer ring, with about 50 cadets starting at 8am. They've agreed that we can use Johnson for Unified as long as we clear out by 8am. Our choices are limited. I'm aware of the 16.050 test at 11am. However if teams want to get in data flights, they will have to fly tomorrow morning, early. Here's what I propose: I'll be in Johnson by 6:30 tomorrow morning and depart for Johnson by 6:40 and we should be flying before 7am. That gives us plenty of time for students, and "guest" fliers, to get in data flights. This time slot should be reserved only for those teams who need to acquire PS data -- teams who've already flown data flights should not show up as they will get in the way of the other teams. Prof C and GTAs: are there any contingency plans if teams don't get in data flights Wednesday -- one day delay perhaps. Pete Young -- Peter W. Young, Col., USAF (ret.) Senior Lecturer Director of CDIO Initiatives phone: (617) 253-5340, fax (617) 253-4002 Massachusetts Institute of Technology Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics 77 Massachusetts Ave., 33-240 Cambridge MA 02139 ----- End forwarded message ----- From howiek at MIT.EDU Tue Mar 9 16:41:01 2004 From: howiek at MIT.EDU (Howard Kleinwaks) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:41:01 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] flying tomorrow Message-ID: Students, Tomorrow morning flying will be reserved for teams who have not already collected data for SP4. If your team has a trained pilot and has not collected data, please show up. If your team does not have a trained pilot, "guest pilots" will be available tomorrow morning to fly your plane so that you can collect data. Your team still needs to be there to take the data. The plan is to meet Col Young in the Gelb Lab at 6:30 am so that there is lots of time to fly, as ROTC will be kicking us out of Johnson at 8. -Howie From ccoleman at MIT.EDU Tue Mar 9 19:06:22 2004 From: ccoleman at MIT.EDU (Charles P Coleman) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:06:22 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] RE: Unified flying Wednesday - please read In-Reply-To: <1078868253.404e391d666d4@webmail.mit.edu> Message-ID: Students- There are no plans for an extension to SP4. Teams with no data need to follow Howie's instructions for meeting Col Young tomorrow morning to take data. Best- Charles -----Original Message----- From: chipd at MIT.EDU [mailto:chipd at MIT.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:38 PM To: unified at mit.edu Subject: Fwd: Unified flying Wednesday - please read Important note from Col. Young about flying tomorrow morning (see below). Note: as of yet, there are no contingency plans as eluded to in the message below. All teams who have not yet compiled data for the SP should be there tomorrow morning. If your plane is not in a flyable condition, you may take data off of another trial THAT YOU WITNESS (do not just copy another team's data). Please try to get there early enough to complete all flights BEFORE 8am. -Carl From drela at MIT.EDU Tue Mar 9 19:36:49 2004 From: drela at MIT.EDU (Mark Drela) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 19:36:49 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] F19 reading: Anderson 10.1, 10.2 Message-ID: <200403100036.i2A0anNe016622@orville.mit.edu> From ccoleman at MIT.EDU Wed Mar 10 09:46:15 2004 From: ccoleman at MIT.EDU (Charles P Coleman) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:46:15 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Last chance to take data for SP4. Thu 11-Mar-04 7a-9a, Johnson Message-ID: Students- Johnson is open 7a-9a Thursday, 11-Mar-04, for a last chance to take data for SP4. The data can be taken in about 4 or 5 minutes. We estimate that between 5 and 10 teams may still need data. If you still need data and plan to be at Johnson tomorrow, please e-mail Howie and/or Carl so that we can be prepared. Happy flying! Charles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/unified-mailman/attachments/20040310/e5d91b40/attachment.htm From howiek at MIT.EDU Wed Mar 10 15:22:43 2004 From: howiek at MIT.EDU (Howard Kleinwaks) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:22:43 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] flight training tomorrow Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040310152130.00b99520@po14.mit.edu> Students, If you are planning on flying tomorrow morning (which you should be if you have yet to collect data), meet Col. Young in the Gelb Lab at 6:30 to get to Johnson by 7 to fly. -Howie From chipd at MIT.EDU Wed Mar 10 15:57:20 2004 From: chipd at MIT.EDU (Carl Dietrich) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:57:20 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Beam Lab Signup Message-ID: Students, The signup sheet for the Beam Lab has been posted outside the TA office. The first time is 2pm tomorrow, and the handout for the lab has just been posted to the web, so please sign up at your earliest convenience. -Carl ___________________________________________________________ Carl Dietrich MIT Rocket Team Unified Engineering Graduate TA MIT Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics Office: 33-104 Phone: 617-253-2274 ___________________________________________________________ From chipd at MIT.EDU Wed Mar 10 17:13:27 2004 From: chipd at MIT.EDU (Carl Dietrich) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:13:27 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Computers Review Session Message-ID: Students, JK has graciously offered to conduct a review session for the computers section of Unified. The first offering will be tomorrow (Thursday 3/11) at 7:30pm. 35-225 has been reserved until 9pm. This is NOT a required review, but it is a great opportunity for you to go over any concepts that you had difficulty with last semester. -Carl ___________________________________________________________ Carl Dietrich MIT Rocket Team Unified Engineering Graduate TA MIT Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics Office: 33-104 Phone: 617-253-2274 ___________________________________________________________ From howiek at MIT.EDU Thu Mar 11 11:06:23 2004 From: howiek at MIT.EDU (Howard Kleinwaks) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:06:23 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Sign up for Beam Lab Message-ID: Students, You need to sign up for the beam lab. There are a limited number of spots, and we CANNOT accomodate more than 12 people per time slot in the lab. Please sign up as soon as possible. -Howie From cgraff at MIT.EDU Thu Mar 11 11:18:33 2004 From: cgraff at MIT.EDU (Christopher Graff) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:18:33 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Materials and Structures Extra Office Hours Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040311110612.02591668@po14.mit.edu> Dear Unified Students, There will be extra office hours in preparation for the Materials Test next Wednesday. Anna, Liz, Emily, and/or I will be available in the TA Office and Lounge for extra help and your questions. The times will be: Sunday: 12 noon - 3 PM Tuesday: 3 PM - 7 PM (This is in addition to the normal Office Hours on Sunday, Monday, and the Tuesday recitation.) Please bring questions on problem sets, reading, and lecture notes. -Chris From kristina at MIT.EDU Thu Mar 11 14:06:09 2004 From: kristina at MIT.EDU (Kristina Lundqvist) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:06:09 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] CP lecture 1 Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040311135546.02ae3050@po14.mit.edu> Mud replies and lecture slides for lecture one are now available via http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/Computers/index.html Attached to this email is also the code used in class today. ..K --- I. Kristina Lundqvist, Ph.D. Charles S. Draper Assistant Professor of Aeronautics and Astronautics Massachusetts Institute of Technology 77 Massachusetts Avenue, 33-406 Cambridge, MA 02139 phone: +1 617-452-2550 fax: +1 617-253-7397 kristina at mit.edu http://www.mit.edu/~kristina http://esl.mit.edu/index.html -------------- next part -------------- -- Lecture 1 -- The code contains "Typical Errors" ... with Ada.Text_Io; with Ada.Integer_Text_Io; procedure Demo_Errors is Upper_Limit : Integer := 10; Lower_Limit : Integer := 10; -- Swap the values of X and Y procedure Swap (X : in out Integer; Y : in out Integer ) is Temp : Integer; begin Y:= Y+1; Temp:=X; X:= Y; Y:= Temp; end Swap; My_Unused_Variable : Integer; My_Semantic_Error : Float; Error : Integer; begin --My_Semantic_Error := My_Unused_Variable; if Lower_Limit >= Upper_Limit then Swap(Lower_Limit, Upper_Limit); end if; Error := Upper_Limit - Lower_Limit; case Error is when -1 => Ada.Text_Io.Put_Line("This should never happen"); when 0 => Ada.Text_Io.Put_Line("Lower and Upper Limit Equal"); when 1=> Ada.Text_Io.Put_Line("Small Error"); when others => Ada.Text_Io.Put_Line("Normal Operation"); end case; end Demo_Errors; From srhall at MIT.EDU Thu Mar 11 14:36:30 2004 From: srhall at MIT.EDU (Steven R. Hall) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:36:30 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Reading for Signals and Systems Message-ID: <6542BBB1-7393-11D8-8505-000A956F082C@mit.edu> Folks, The reading for the next couple of lectures is now up on the Signals web page, http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/signals/ Please make sure that you read the section on the page regarding the readings. See you in class tomorrow! Steven Hall From howiek at MIT.EDU Fri Mar 12 16:53:12 2004 From: howiek at MIT.EDU (Howard Kleinwaks) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:53:12 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] q3m handout on web Message-ID: Students, The handout for Q3M is on the web (and has been for a few days...sorry about not emailing you about it earlier). It can be found on the materials website. -Howie From spearing at MIT.EDU Fri Mar 12 16:58:54 2004 From: spearing at MIT.EDU (Mark Spearing) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:58:54 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Quiz M3 help session recitation Message-ID: Dear Unified Students I will be running the Tuesday recitations as a help session for the materials and structures quiz on Wednesday. Please send me your requests for topics to cover, examples to do, by 5pm on Monday and I will try to address them in the recitation. I will also be in office hours on Monday afternoon. Regards Mark Spearing From amracek at MIT.EDU Sun Mar 14 13:03:34 2004 From: amracek at MIT.EDU (Anna Mracek) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:03:34 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Extra Materials Office Hours Reminder Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040314130210.027cbc38@po12.mit.edu> There are extra office hours for materials help now until 5 and Tuesday 3-7. Come take advantage and get your questions answered! -Anna From srhall at MIT.EDU Sun Mar 14 23:27:45 2004 From: srhall at MIT.EDU (Steven R. Hall) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:27:45 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] Lecture S1 muddy points are on the web ... Message-ID: <1B6F04F1-7639-11D8-B756-000A956F082C@mit.edu> Folks, Lecture S1 muddy points are on the web at http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/signals/ . Enjoy. Steven Hall From kristina at MIT.EDU Sun Mar 14 23:44:45 2004 From: kristina at MIT.EDU (Kristina Lundqvist) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:44:45 -0500 Subject: [Unified-mailman] CP 2 Mud replies and Ada code In-Reply-To: <1B6F04F1-7639-11D8-B756-000A956F082C@mit.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040314233958.019e8488@po14.mit.edu> Unified, attached to this email is all Ada code used in lecture 2, and via the following link are replies to mud cards for CP2: http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/Computers/index.html http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/Computers/Mud/M2.htm see you in the morning, Kristina Lundqvist -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CP.lecture2.zip Type: application/zip Size: 2999 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/unified-mailman/attachments/20040314/fbc0f859/attachment.zip