[Tango-L] Ojo! Long Post Re: Type-A Tango Salon or Show ?

[barbara]

Where the heck to begin. The posts of Charles and Gordon reflect most 
accurately the tango experience of this old lady, which some of you know 
began in 1986, first trip of many to BsAs in 1987, helping to develop 
the SF tango community from 1986 through the '90s. Al and i now live in 
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, where we have been teaching and promoting 
tango, with all attendant  joys and frustrations, since 2004. These are 
some observations from the last 25 years:

What has been labeled "milonguero" tango, I prefer ("apilado" or 
"full-frontal"), was indeed being danced in 1986, in the center of the 
city in crowded dance halls such as Regin (now El Beso) and Salon 
Argentina, but was not taught by anyone, as far as I know, before Susana 
Miller started the franchise in 1994.

For starters, please don't take the following as a rejection of any or 
all forms of close-embrace tango; I mean to defend Salon tango, not to 
denigrate any other social style, through clarifying what I know of 
tango history.

The social style of the majority of barrios outside of the center but 
within city limits was what has been referred to on this list as Salon. 
By this I don't mean "open", but close and flexible. These barrios 
include but are not confined to Villa Urquiza, Mataderos, etc.; there 
were some differences between barrios. Variations of this style were 
taught by teachers who were considered milongueros such as Fino Ribera, 
Eduardo & Gloria, Todaro, Roberto Grassi, Raul Bravo, Lampazo, Pupi 
Castello et al. AND as well as teaching social moves some of them taught 
material only suitable for performance. Show or exhibition tango is not, 
and never was, considered the same as Salon style, but is obviously is 
an outgrowth of it. The idea that milongueros don't do exhibitions is 
naively mistaken; it is traditional to include an exhibition in a 
milonga at around 3 am, and competitions have been fiercely fought since 
the 19th century. What's more, in the '80s and still, some  of those 
teaching were stage performers as well as social dancers, e.g. Eduardo 
and Gloria. Some were teachers and performers only and didn't go to the 
milongas (the Dinzels), and Copes, for example, taught performance tango 
complete with choreography What is important is that there was ALWAYS a 
distinction made by conscientious maestros between social tango suitable 
for a milonga as opposed to exhibition tango. We were made very clear 
about this by Danel and Maria Bastone, who had studied with Todaro in 
those years, as well as by Orlando Paiva.  Everything taught was related 
to line of dance and floorcraft. No doubt there were and are plenty of 
unenlightened or unscrupulous teachers who don't explain and teach this 
difference, but that is not inherent in or confined to Salon style. 
Also, Salon style tango NEVER included non-tango stage or ballroom-dance 
moves such as lifts, drops, twirls, etc. Sorry, no pole-dancing, folks.

In terms of teaching  it has been our experience, as well as our regret, 
that students, after a good dose of the basics (and whether or not they 
are ready, which they aren't), Really Want to learn more dramatic moves, 
and an instructor can talk himself blue in the face without shaking 
their desire to do ganchos,  carpas, even, to  my dismay, volcadas. 
Without Exception this has been our teaching experience, and the choice 
is usually between teaching some additional material while constantly 
expanding on basic technique or seeing eager students quit tango. Also, 
it may be that studying a wider range of techniques can be valuable in  
revisiting more basic ones which appear so much easier but are actually 
infinitely more challenging. To keep dancing and continue learning 
individually with videos and/or pure observation requires 
out-of-the-ordinary talent, body awareness and dedication. (I've been 
trying this with classical guitar and it's unfortunately not working).

A woman could maybe continue on her own (and several on this List have) 
by moving to BsAs and dancing nightly with carefully chosen partners, 
if  she knows how to choose them and they will dance with her. That 
wouldn't work so well for a leader . . .

So, Mario, instead of ranting against instructors for teaching more than 
walking, ochos, and simple turns, in close-embrace only, pride yourself 
on being one of the Exceptions we have not yet encountered. Come to 
Puerto Vallarta and show us  :-)

Bottom line, we would love any advice on how to convince students that 
they should stick to improving their basics for however many years it 
takes instead of learning "new" material . . . .

As for whether Salon style can or should be danced in crowded milongas: 
it requires your control of space on the pista and navigation while 
concentrating on  the music and the partner in your arms. It depends on 
you, but also on the space and shape of the floor, the quality and 
etiquette of other dancers, the music and mood of the evening. But so 
does every night at any milonga in the world, whatever style you prefer.
Prospero 2011 to all,
Barbara





On 25/12/2010 11:47 a.m., Charles Roques wrote:
> <<I agree with all that you say. But the point is that almost no one dances or
> teaches
> the style of Orlando Paiva anymore.>>
>
> Not true.  I do and have for years, as also do others outside of Argentina.  Admittedly and sadly in a minority nowadays but it depends on which circle you travel in. That is the problem on the Tango-L list; people arbitrarily use labels without a knowledge of the history and beginner dancers blindly accept those labels further spreading the confusion.  Just because teachers describe and teach the style of Murat and Michelle as tango de salon does not make it correct. The real fault lies with the teachers spreading these labels around.  The fact that someone can go to a classic traditional milonga such as Sin Rumbo and be surprised to see close-embrace dancing (something that has been common there for years) says more about their knowledge and experience than it does about the dancing at Sin Rumbo.
>
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
>
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>