[Tango-L] lead with arms

[Jack Dylan]

Igor,

It wasn't Back Ochos in general but a particular Back Ocho. Susana Mller was assisted in the class by a milonguero who has danced for more than 70 years and is well known for this Back Ocho. Sorry, but I didn't catch his name but I've seen him many times in the milongas, despite him being old and frail.

He steps to left and lady to right. He leads her into a LF back cross and follows with his own RF back cross. He then holds this position, on two feet, while leading her to do a RF back cross to complete her Ocho. He can also lead her to another Ocho while still maintaining this position. It's these few steps that Susana told us were led by the man's arms. He can then either walk out or lead her to a Giro to right or left. Of course, you can also lead these steps from the chest which is probably the way we would all do it, but I think Susana was showing us the way this particular milonguero danced it. She certainly wasn't teaching us to lead Back Ochos using arms only. This was an advanced class and I think she was safe to assume that we all already knew how to dance normal Back Ochos. But Susana is a very interesting person and is very interested in the ways different milongeros dance.

With Ana Maria Schapira, the arm-assist was just for the final step of the Ocho Cortado when it ends with the lady's cross in front, backwards, rather than forwards. Without the arm assist, Ana Maria said it was possible for the lady to mis-interpret the lead and do a back cross instead. This has certainly happened to me when the lady hasn't been familiar wth this type of Ocho Cortado. Ana Maria teaches Back Ochos with a chest-lead only; no arms.

In another class today, another milonguero was dancing this same Ocho Cortado [in Milonga] and, when ending with this lady's cross backwards, I believe he used the phrase ... "keeping a firm embrace". I would interpret this to mean the same as what Ana Maria was teachng me. It ensures the lady crosses in front and doesn't go behind..

Jack



----- Original Message ----
> From: Igor Polk <ipolk at virtuar.com>
> To: jackdylan007 at yahoo.com
> Cc: tango-l at mit.edu
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:29:19 PM
> Subject: lead with arms
> 
> Dear Jack,
> 
> Does Susana Miller actually told you to keep the chest perfectly still while
> leading back ochos?
> 
> It is important for me..
> 
> It is really important for me know what Susana Miller said about it or what
> Ana Maria Schapira said about it. I adore Ana Maria, and I'd love to know
> what she said.
> 
> Igor