[Tango-L] chicho - sorry

[Noughts]

Myk

This is my point.  The lead IS the same. Style and emphasis are
different.  The same principle and techniques are employed.  In actual
fact, the better the lead (Chicho, Veron, Naviera etc) the less you
would even notice.  The lead is SOLELY through the chest.  Maintaining
the frame is NOT pushing or pulling, relaxing the frame and allowing
your arms to move is NOT pushing or pulling (what you see in these
videos).

Again, as I stated before - using the arms as you say automatically
means that a person is pushing, or pulling, if you don't understand
this, then there is not much I can say or do other than demonstrate it
with you - it is something you feel, not something you observe.  As
you stated, in a lot of his dancing, he has no chest connection.. does
that automatically mean no chest lead?  Answer - no.  Simple.  Cecilia
Gonzalez and other great dancers for years have showed how to maintain
a connection without contact.  If you think that, then you are truly
quite naive in the way of open dancing and nuevo and only expousing
one perspective quite possibly.  An excellent lead in open uses
nothing but chest.  This you possibly have yet to experience.

In contrast, then you would say that all 'Salon/Close' embrace dancers
only use chest - and almost every woman would tell you that the
majority of 'Salon/Close' embrace dancers also use their arms, hands,
wrists, forearms and fingers to change a lead, change direction and or
execute some other lead.  Is it correct?  Is it wrong?  Well, that is
an entire debate in itself.  Watch most "milonguero's" (definition,
self taught dancer) and they have their own style, but really, that
does not automatically make them a good dancer.  Most are too strong
in the frame, squeeze the life out of a woman or man (women do it too
unfortunately).

So, at the end of the day, closed, open, salon, canjengue, candombe,
nuevo, stage... any other dance you like - lead correctly, uses
basically chest only.  The technique is the same.  Having danced and
competed internationally in many different dances, ballroom included -
this is quite synonymous.

Again, your perogative to disagree - hope that one day you experience
a good dancer in all the styles, then maybe you will understand.  Or,
you and any other person could just decide that no, my teachers, me,
other teachers that teach this and almost any good dancer has no idea
and you may never actually explore or learn it further.

At no point have I even entered into a debate about Nuevo in a
Traditional milonga - both co-exist at basically every milonga in BA -
even the most traditional.  That is another debate entirely.

> The frame changes shape far more radically in Chicho's 'nuevo' dancing
> than in traditional tango. There are times when the lady is more beside
> him than in front of him. I'm not saying that it's bad or evil, just
> that it is a quite different style of dance. Wherever you fall in the
> debate about whether nuevo dancing belongs in the same milongas as
> traditional dancing, you have to agree that they are different styles.
>
> Sorry, Damian, but I disagree. The leading is not "the same". Chicho is
> leading with his frame (using the arms to adjust the shape of the
> frame), more like ballroom dancing. Traditional tango leads from the
> chest, and your chest is always facing your partner. That's a different
> way of leading, and dancing. Chicho abandons the chest connection in
> order to make a more visually interesting and varied dance.
>
> Did I say pushing or pulling? No. I said "using". When the person you're
> dancing with is beside your chest, then in front of your chest, then
> beside your chest again, you are not leading with your chest, you are
> leading with your arms.
>