[Tango-L] Abusing the available space

[tony parkes]

i find this all very analytical

last sunday night at porteno y bailarin there was a large young crowd
so both floors had a large proportion of couples dancing nuevo. there
were no physical conflicts, but i for one was emotionally put off by
their dancing with a different energy, a different rhythm, a different
topographical direction. when moreno sang rodriguez's llorar por la
mujer there was no connection by the nuevosists to the lyrics, it
could have been jingle bells.

for me nuevo dancing is just not about occupying the physical
floorspace. it interrupts my emotional connection with the floor, the
music, the milonga, the line of dance. nuevo may have evolved from
tango but for me the two cannot be danced on the same floor. the sad
part is that nuevo dancers want to deny that their dancing can
negatively affect others


feliz navidad to all
tony

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Shahrukh Merchant
<shahrukh at shahrukhmerchant.com> wrote:
>
> "Brian Dunn" <brianpdunn at earthlink.net> said:
>
> > At some of these traditional milongas, I have seen younger or
> > relatively more energetic dancers in the middle of the ronda making more
> > complete use of the available space not used by the dense outer ronda.  They
> > generally dance WITHOUT causing conflicts with the older dancers in the
> > outer ronda, even though their orientation to available space is different.
>
> and a similar sentiment repeated a few days later:
>
> > I did say that some on this list might call what they do "nuevo",
> > because they are making, for example, more use of the available space at
> > times than those dancers who immediately go for
> > "dense-ronda-on-the-outer-edge" dancing even when there is plenty of room.
>
> Something about this "nuevo dancers make more use of the available
> space" claim really rubbed me the wrong way (nothing to do with the
> "nuevo" part of his statement), so I had to respond the second time I
> saw this.
>
> First of all, I have never ever seen a *crowded* milonga where everyone
> is on the outer edge while there is still plenty of room (presumably on
> the inside). It just doesn't happen. People expand to fill the available
> space. There is no dense single file, it is more like a swarm that moves
> counter-clockwise on the whole (or should) and sure, there has to be
> lower density in the very middle, because that's the place either side
> of which people are moving in opposite directions. But the implication
> that people who accommodate themselves within this "swarm of dance" are
> MIS-utilizing the available space is disingenuous at best.
>
> Sure, there may be teachers who during a class or workshop will force
> people to dance in an artificially constrained tight circle to help
> build the skills needed to do that (or at least make the point that it's
> a necessary skill to acquire--it's not that easy a skill to teach,
> certainly not in a class or two). But in a crowded milonga situation, I
> just have never seen that (or maybe we just dance in completely
> different circles ... no pun intended :-)).
>
> But it's the implication of "go right ahead and dance in the middle of
> the floor and let the old fogies stick to the outside--that's what they
> want to do anyway and besides they just don't know how to make use of
> the available space" that I find particularly objectionable (yes, I'm
> exaggerating what you said, but I *do* read just that sentiment). It
> really comes across as nothing more than rationalization to abuse the
> space, overuse ones fair share of the available space and blame any
> problems it causes on others (or perhaps just deny that it causes any).
>
> It's like a glutton at a cocktail party who's scoops all 25 canapes from
> the serving tray into his plate saying, "Well, I was hungry and simply
> making complete use of the available food; besides, I didn't see anyone
> else rushing over to the tray--they probably already ate the one or two
> that they typically eat anyway." (a) He's making unfounded assumptions
> about other people's wants or needs and (b) Even in the unlikely event
> that he's right, he comes across as a boor anyway.
>
> To go back to Brian's original quote:
>
> "At some of these traditional milongas, I have seen younger or
> relatively more energetic dancers in the middle of the ronda making more
> complete use of the available space not used by the dense outer ronda.
> They generally dance WITHOUT causing conflicts with the older dancers in
> the outer ronda, even though their orientation to available space is
> different."
>
> What *I* see FAR more frequently is in fact very different--my version
> would restate it as follows:
>
> "At most milongas (not just traditional ones), I see more vigorously
> moving dances (not just younger ones, but generally those less able to
> control their energy or direct it inwards) disregarding the available
> space because they felt constrained dancing in the ronda. They almost
> always cause conflicts to the other dancers (though others dancing like
> them don't seem to mind or notice, and they certainly don't), since
> their mental orientation on what constitutes available space is ... well
> ... 'different.'"
>
> This is not about nuevo vs. classic at all (I am not in any "camp" nor
> do I think it's even relevant, productive or even accurate to consider
> them as largely incompatible "camps"), but it very much is about what
> constitutes appropriate social behaviour in a social setting (which a
> milonga is, and not just a traditional milonga--all milongas and even
> practicas are social settings too).
>
> But if I were a nuevo "campista" (whatever nuevo means ... different
> post), I would not appreciate "my" style being associated with bad or
> inconsiderate navigation skills. Ironically, even though the "Ron vs.
> Brian" debates seem to put the two of them on opposite extremes of,
> well, something (still trying to figure out what exactly :-)), to my way
> of thinking both of them are unfairly associating nuevo with bad or
> inconsiderate floorcraft (Ron says so in so many words, Brian more
> subtly, and unintentionally, by advocating and admiring a type of
> floorcraft that he associates with nuevo that I would consider
> inconsiderate and hence bad floorcraft).
>
> Shahrukh
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l



--
cheers
tony