[Tango-L] tango ni brothels

[Tony]

Floyd Baker wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:18:18 +0000, you wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi Charles,
>> Interesting post, we're in accord that Tango was danced there, but I 
>> still don't see it as a credible place for its origins. You say maybe 
>> the first tango wasn't danced there, so perhaps we're not thinking that 
>> differently. But I'm not convinced that the early evolution of the dance 
>> took place there. As I see it, men learned dance in part to wow the 
>> women they were after, but the drive to make such  a complex dance that 
>> takes years to master can't be there in the brothel - the guys surely 
>> went with one thing in mind, and once the money was handed over, it was 
>> a done deal. I'm not ignoring the sexuality of the dance, but many 
>> dances have this, and some are more blatant (eg groin contact is the 
>> norm, whereas in Tango it is avoided.)
>>     
>
> You deny a basic origin but use as your reason only that it has
> evolved into an such a complex dance that takes years to master.   
> You lay it on the 'drive' required..?  You mean just to improvise?  Or
> sex?  Or Simply wanting to show off?   Or make money?  What drive are
> you speaking of?  
>   

Hi Floyd,
Cheers for replying. I questioned, rather than denied. I seldom nail my 
colours to the mast straight away :-)

The drive... um, lots of things... the drive to dance is instinctive. On
top of that, in Tango, there's connection, intimacy, courtship... The
courtship isn't relevant, and the connection probably not sought after,
if you're paying for a great deal more intimacy!

> Personally I don't consider it a complex dance at all.  The ladies, as
> did the cortesans, only need to step in one of just three directions.
> And be ready to pivot, reverse direction, and a few other minor
> modifications while doing any of those three steps.   It is precicely
> that the men practiced together learning to think up and work out all
> the modifications themselves, and how to integrate them and string
> them, to be true leaders,  without asking anything more from the
> ladies, that more and more of these modifications and foot patterns
> came to be deployed to the ladies, by the leaders, one step at a
> time.., came about...  

Well, Othello is a complex game with very simple rules. As we know, the
combinations in Tango are endless, it takes years to learn how to walk
and so on. One step at a time makes sense, I'll go with that.

>> CD's explanation is that men, waiting for the services of the 
>> courtesans, being entertained by Tango musicians whilst waiting, would 
>> use the opportunity to practice... and hence be observed by upper and 
>> middle classes with whom they wouldn't normally mix - and yes, they'd 
>> write about this new dance they'd seen at the brothels. It seems a 
>> coherent explanation.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>     
>  
> I hope that includes me..  :-)

Of course!

> It is not  a johnny come lately CD explanation.   Other than that CD's
> got their information from the same sources we all have.   It has been
> explained as being developed by men to take to the bordellos, for the
> past 25 years of A/T history telling, in books movies, and the tales
> from As.Bs. itself, that I'm aware of at least.   I've never heard of
> any other explanation.  
>   

That the idea is old was never in question.

> Bordellos were not just cat houses btw.  They were fairly complete and
> exotic places of entertainment.., offering lounges, drinks, games,
> conversation, and of course dancing...  The ladies wanting to be
> appealing to the men.., not the other way around..,  but they having
> the time for dance lessons.   So they employed the kiss method.   

Good point re: the function of bordellos. Actually I just received
another off list email going into more detail about madams using dance
halls as covers for brothels to avoid certain laws - not against
prostitution per se, but against dancing and drinking happening there.
What bizarre laws get passed!

"They having the time for dance lessons" - ? Men or women? Do you mean
having or not having? Confused! And what is the "Kiss method"?

> It is most certainly that which the men took and ran with.  They had
> nothing better to do with their time, eh?  
>   

Tsk, men, eh?

Incidentally, I'm no spokesman for any author, I can relay what I
understood from a read but no more than that. Nonetheless, CD's opinion
is informed by her conversations with numerous milongueros of the golden
age. Clearly, others with contrary opinions are well informed too... and 
someone like myself can only voice uncertainties to resolve the ensuing 
confusion! Thanks again for your post; I remain open minded and intrigued.


Cheers,
Tony

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