[Tango-L] Bruno Alfonso post re Chicho's embrace

[Tom Stermitz]

I've noticed that excellent dancers of all styles use all kinds of  
embraces:
  - apilado to vertical,
  - touching to open,
  - almost symmetrical to slightly V to extremely V
  - light arms to rigid arms.
  - always close to variable embrace
  - balance between independent axis or locking the axis using a  
strong frame.

Each embrace has its benefits or restrictions. But, the embrace is  
primarily a stylistic choice.

Certainly, remaining in a very close embrace makes the "no-pivot"  
ochos crossing behind a useful technique. Conversely, spiraling and  
opening slightly allows clearance for the woman's hips so she can  
pivot. To me the woman's technique of doing ochos is the primary  
differentiation between open and close embrace: does she have to crank  
the pivot, or can she just float the leg.

 From what I have noticed, it appears to me that dancers in Buenos  
Aires have a MODERATE TENDENCY to use a little more V in the Frame and  
a little more tilt to the apilado when compared with foreigners. They  
have a STRONG TENDENCY to dance in a very close embrace, whether  
always apilado or variable salon embrace.


V-Frame.

Not more versatile, just different.

This is certainly beneficial when one or the other of the partners has  
a large stomach, or when the follower is a lot shorter than the  
leader. Gustavo's partner is shorter than he is. I also notice that  
Gustavo chooses a tango pinta (look) that matches the traditional  
salon, even while his technique and training allow non-traditional  
elements.

In general, the asymmetry of V-Frame makes a number of things more  
difficult. Walking to the right of the follower may be easier, but  
walking to the left is harder (requires a bigger twist). It is harder  
to do the same thing to left and right

The biggest issue I have with V-Frame is that learning tango in a V  
creates an asymmetrical foundation. When I dance with followers who  
are locked into a hard V-frame, it feels rigid and hurtful to my back.  
The traditional tango embrace is already a bit asymmetrical, so I feel  
it is better to start with things as symmetric as possible, and then  
use a "slight V" (in my preferred case), as a "pose on top of symmetry".




On Jan 28, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Nussbaum, Martin wrote:

> Bruno, the embrace used in the Chicho Poema clip is known as a "V"
> embrace.  It is actually used quite a lot by traditional salon  
> dancers,
> as well as more "modern" masters, such as Gustavo.     It is much more
> versatile than the flat-on, chest on chest embrace, in that  
> transitions
> and turns that might require a slight loosening of the embrace- to  
> what
> I call a "semi-open" embrace,  result in an effect similar to the
> breathing of the bandoneon,  bellows opening and closing. From the
> square on apilado embrace, such changes are more rare, if they occur  
> at
> all,  because they would be far more abrupt and noticeable, also  
> because
> those who dance it really want to keep the apilado throughout the  
> piece.
> The v embrace also allows the woman to maintain her separate axis  
> more,
> especially if it is opened a little further in a giro.  I am sure we
> will see a lot of posts disagreeing with this, but I think the v  
> embrace
> sued by chicho lets the follower rotate her hips more in a turn, and
> take bigger steps which allow for things like sacadas, whereas  
> follower
> in apilado tend to turn with hips kept facing more toward leader,  
> which
> causes turn steps to look like short back crosses.  I may not be
> explaining this very well, but you should experiment with different
> types of embraces, you may find that you prefer a particular embrace  
> for
> some partners but not others, and for some music but not others.



Tom Stermitz
http://www.tango.org
Denver, CO 80207