[Tango-L] Strong Lead - resistance effect

[Krasimir Stoyanov]

So you think 100N (11kg) is too much force for a 70kg follower? I don't
think so..And you calculation is imprecise. Because there is something like
bouncing in each step. Yes, another thing that is taught wrong. Every step
begins with a fall, then bouncing from the floor, then finishing up
(climbing up). It is not done with legs that are straight all the time, so
it is not too visible, but it is there. That's why the follower's and
leader's mass help both in acceleration and in deceleration. So the force is
minimal, it is just enough to cause 'the fall", then the two fall and climb,
fall and climb, and so on. So beautiful. So tango. That's the physics behind
the words: "The leader shows intention, the follower leads, the leader
follows". In the terms above, the leader causes the fall, the follower
accepts (without resistance) and falls, and the leader (simultaneously -
they are connected) follows by falling with.

People that can see, see it. Try yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e_Rbts5Q9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oc1x6iNiMI


Whatever, if you don't agree, it must be because you are not ready to.
Someday you will understand.

Meanwhile, read the "book" here:
www.tangoandchaos.org


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Lakeland" <dlakelan at street-artists.org>
To: <tango-l at mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Strong Lead - resistance effect


> On Wed, Sep 26, 2007 at 01:11:42AM +0300, Krasimir Stoyanov wrote:
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Daniel Lakeland" <dlakelan at street-artists.org>
>> To: <tango-l at mit.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Strong Lead - resistance effect
>>
>>
>>
>> > The bodies act 'as if' a force is acting
>> > between them, but not because the leader is applying a physical force
>> > to the follower.
>>
>> REALLY? Isn't there a simpler explanation? That the bodies DO experience 
>> a
>> force in-between?
>
> No, for two reasons. First, I and others frequently dance with
> partners using no physical connection, to practice both follow and
> lead, and second, the forces required to synchronize two bodies moving
> in the way that tango dancers do would be very strong and unpleasant
> when applied across the arms of the embrace.
>
> Definitely, tango dancers in an embrace transmit forces between the
> two bodies, but these forces are signalling, not the principle forces
> required to synchronize the bodies.
>
> For example:
>
> A 70 kg rigid sack of potatoes on ice (a model for a follower being
> forced around) is accelerated from rest to .5 m/s in an interval of .5
> seconds and then back to rest in another .5 seconds. The impulse in
> each interaction is 35 N-s and the average force is 70 N. The peak
> force must be more than the average force. Perhaps 1.5 times as much
> is a reasonable guess. So are you first pushing your partner with 105
> N of force and then pulling her back to stop her? This is about 25
> lbs. Try dead-lifting a 25 lb (~ 100N or 11kg of mass) weight and then
> come back and tell me if you're applying that much force to your
> follower.
>
> I suggest the answer lies in between that and zero. Perhaps 5 lbs of
> force on average, with the follower supplying the rest of the lateral
> forces required using her legs (surely we must acknowledge the keen
> importance of the followers legs!)
>
> Yes, forces are transmitted, and occasionally during vigorous turns
> and soforth they may approach my example of 100 N or 25 lbs, but on
> average they are much below this.
>
>
> -- 
> Daniel Lakeland
> dlakelan at street-artists.org
> http://www.street-artists.org/~dlakelan
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