[Tango-L] teachers/dancers, salon/show was:Melina & Detlef

[Andreas Wichter]

Hello Keith,

you are probably quite right to say that the very best dancers are 
Argentinians. This would make sense considering the possibilities they 
have, and the numerical advantage they have.
I wonder, though, if everybody understands this even remotely in the 
same way. Your idea of the "best dancer" might be quite different from, 
say, mine, or Janis´, or somebody else´s, for that matter. One might 
see stars of the teaching circuit in a brilliant demo, and then later 
they use a three-figures repertoire dancing in the milonga, seemingly 
deaf to boot. Others may not look like much, but their partners´ faces 
in the milonga light up with pleasure. Who´s better? I admit this is a 
loaded question, but you get my drift. I suspect that for most people 
even on this list "best dancers" status goes to people who shine on a 
stage. Some of these are good social dancers, too, but simply from 
seeing them perform how can you tell? I guess that is my point.

Secondly, equating "best dancer" to "best teacher" simply contradicts 
my experience, and that of many I´ve spoken to when I asked them about 
this or that workshop with superstar x or y they attended. People have 
been sneered at, laughed at, shouted at, ignored by quite a few high 
status teachers, and often have not learned much. I have had excellent 
experiences with some highly regarded dancers, and I´ve had bitter 
disappointments: when Mr Superstar spent the workshop either showing 
some complex, lenghty sequence (which nobody in the group even remotely 
learned to do) or chatting to friends they met in BsAs; when another Mr 
Super arrived at the workshop drunk and danced with the women while 
holding a cigarette (and later the women he danced with (even when 
sober) told me he couldn´t lead at all - indeed he even had to tell his 
partner what he wanted her to do); when still another showed stuff but 
hardly ever uttered a complete sentence, clearly bored with what he was 
doing.
It seems to me many people become teachers out of necessity. Usually 
that means they suck, no matter how brilliant they might be as dancers. 
Does anybody think Picasso must necessarily have been the best art 
teacher there is?
People who actually like teaching, and work hard at being good at it, 
are usually the ones best suited to the job.
You said not to delude ourselves, that Melina and Detlef are not as 
good as the best Argentinians. Well, actually that depends on what you 
are talking about. The best stage dancers? Certainly not. As good on 
the social dance floor? You´d be surprised. As teachers? I´d choose 
them over almost anybody else, anytime, unless I really wanted to learn 
something they can´t teach or don´t know.
It is interesting that many Argentinians value them more highly than 
non-Argentinians seem to do...
I have met some excellent teachers, and yes, some of them were 
Argentinians, but just as many or more were not.

Lastly, it is quite important what people actually teach. 90 percent of 
the stuff most couples show in their demos are unsuited to the social 
dance floor. Many (most, actually) teach those things in their classes. 
Similar to what Jake recently said in another post on another topic, 
it´s the other teachers (those teaching salon-compatible tango) who 
have to pick up the pieces. A recent experience of mine was a 60+ years 
old woman showing me what she had just learned from a twentysomething 
years old professional dancer with endless legs: a leg wrap around the 
man´s back and waist. To be done during the walk...
The things Detlef and Melina teach are often more difficult than the 
typical workshop sequences that nobody can remember afterwards anyway, 
and at the same time more doable because they can be done by 
non-athletes and they are actually related to the skill of dancing as 
opposed to showing off.
The best stuff in tango is what you can´t see.

Was I ranting? :-)
Sorry.

Cheers,
Andreas





> Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 01:13:49 -0400
> From: Keith <keith at tangohk.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Melina & Detlef
> To: tango-l at mit.edu
> Message-ID: <51662.1189055629 at tangohk.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>  Pretty much everybody seems to have attacked Janis on this subject. 
> But the fact is, she's
>  absolutely, 100% correct. Argentineans are the very best dancers of 
> Tango and the best way to
>  learn is to learn from the best. Isn't that obvious? Unfortunately, 
> we all have limited time and
>  money and we have to use each as wisely as possible.
>
>  If you're totally committed to Tango, you'll do as Janis and others 
> have done, and go to live in
>  Buenos Aires. If you're slightly less committed, you'll just spend as 
> much time as you possibly
>  can in Buenos Aires. If you're even less committed, you'll settle for 
> learning from local and
>  visiting teachers, whoever they might be. But let's not delude 
> ourselves and imagine that any
>  non-Argentine, including Melina and Detlef, are as good as the best 
> of the Argentines. Quite
>  simply, they're not.
>
>  And Dani, no one has ever said that Argentines are the ONLY good 
> teachers/dancers - just that the
>  best teachers/dancers are Argentines. There's a big difference. In 
> fact, even Janis, in her post,
>  said that Americans could learn from American teachers - so she asked 
> .. why import Germans? On
>  that I have already disagreed with Janis. In the absence of 
> Argentines - importing European
>  teachers might make good sense.
>
>  Keith, HK
>