[Tango-L] : buenos aires milongas

[musette fan]

Martin, 

Which NYC milongas and practicas do you attend that have such a high ratio of
men/"skilled leaders"?  I might go out of my way to see that for myself.  Feel free
to email me privately if you don't want it to go out to the whole list.  

Thanks,

Terri


--- "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau at law.nyc.gov> wrote:

> Feminist backlash? Not even sure I understand the context of that statement,
> coming from you, someone who dances tango, a  macho dance, in BA, a macho culture.
>    The reason there are more skilled leaders here is demographics. There are more
> leaders here in the milongas, practicas, and advanced classes.  The women only
> need to become passable, and they think, why should I bother the time and money on
> classes when I get all the men I can handle anyway? If the lead is good, I can
> dance,..  Etc.   So the advanced workshops always have extra leaders. Note I said
> leaders, not necessarily men.  When a woman leads, as is often the case here, it
> takes two women away from the pool of available followers, as she rarely leads a
> man.   The more advanced the class, the more the leaders outnumber the followers. 
> I think the nuevo trend is accelerating the number of women who want to lead,
> since the embrace is so much more open and the dance loses the traditional gender
> roles.  Festivals are somewhat better balanced,  unless they seek to limit
> attendance by gender balance, which does not work unless they specifically ask
> whether the registrant is taking the class as a lead or a follow.   Not sure which
> festivals Ceverett attends, but I have never seen a festival class which was
> skewed the way he says. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deby Novitz [mailto:dnovitz at lavidacondeby.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:24 PM
> To: Nussbaum, Martin
> Cc: tango-l at mit.edu
> Subject: buenos aires milongas
> 
> I am not sure what you mean when you say "is my statement true, or is it a
> perception."  I live and dance here. I am a part of the local community just as
> you are in your cities.  I also lived and danced in the U.S. before moving here
> permanently.  The milongas here are much different than the U.S.  Here the
> milongas are social events.  If you don't dance you can always enjoy the company
> of your friends. Many times people come to the milongas here and don't dance
> because they are having fun with their friends. Men and women who dance here will
> always tell you that there are many more women here than men in the milongas.
> 
> With reference to my comment, I am not talking about your average dancer in the
> milonga.  I am talking about your best dancers.  The ones that really know how to
> dance.  Take 100 dancers.  Of that 100 65 are women and 35 are men.  So you have
> 35 men to dance with 65 women. Of the 65 women, maybe 15 are excellent dancers. 
> Of the 35 men maybe 5 are excellent.  So there are 5 men for 15 women.  Then there
> are the rest of the dancers.  Those 5 men know they are the best dancers.
> 
> Those 5 men don't have to worry about anyone accepting a dance with them.  Even if
> it is a night where there are an even or a close to even amount of men to women. 
> They know all the women want to dance with them.  They can dance with whoever they
> want.  The women do not have this luxury.  We cannot ask men to dance.  We can
> look at them all night long and if they do not want to accept our invitation they
> won´t, regardless of who we are or how well we dance.  That man is King,
> regardless of how he looks - he can have cigarette breath, a stomach, and be bald.
>  But if he can dance all that is forgiven inside the milonga.
> 
> If those 5 guys don't show up, then what do us 15 women say?  "There is no one to
> dance with."  Those other 30 guys don't count.  If we really want to dance, then
> we dance with other men whose levels are close to those 5 guys.  Just like those 5
> guys who are the Kings, the men know, they hold the power of whether we dance or
> not.  If we have turned down guys repeatedly in the past, then there is no way
> they will dance with us now.  It is like they are saying "Suffer bitch, you ain't
> gettin no dance from me now." 
> 
> I do not know one milonga here in Buenos Aires where there are more men than
> women. At one time when I first came to Buenos Aires, there were more men.  Now
> that is no longer true.  There are always more women.  
> Especially if there is a football game on.  At times at the end of a milonga here
> there maybe a few more men.  Lots of reasons for that.  (I am talking 4 am) There
> are more professional women than men who dance tango.  That means that they have
> to go to work in the morning.  Many of the men are retired. 
> 
> You know I find it interesting that men outside of B.A.  are now saying how there
> are more skilled leaders than followers.  I find it rather humorous, especially
> since I have danced with some of them. Is this a male tango dancer feminist
> backlash? 
> 
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