[Tango-L] Heel-first versus Toe-first

[Barbara Garvey]

Tom wrote:

>Stage or Social? Beginners, Intermediates or Advanced? Trained  
>dancers or normal people? This is an issue of correct context, not an  
>issue of some intrinsic truth.
>  
>

Al and I were over 50 years old when we started to learn tango, and 
certainly not trained dancers, or with aspirations for the stage.We were 
beginners, in 1987, but of course didn't realize it. Our teachers 
understood this.

>Many of the teachers in Sergio's list are fundamentally  
>performance dancers, are well-trained if not professional dancers.  
>They primarily instruct in stage dancing, even if their students are  
>often social dancers.. . I know that the immediate response will be that  
>they also dance socially..
>

Yes,  Copes, Copello, the Zottos, and Fabian are stage &/ or 
professional dancers. And we did take classes from them, but our main 
teachers were Fino Ribero, Pupi Castello, Lampaso, Nito Garcia (who only 
became a teaching professional after we brought him to the States and 
has almost never performed on stage),  & Orlando Paiva ( a teacher but 
seldom performer). None of these are primarily performers; all are 
(were) social dancers.  What  is not usually understood is that before 
1994, although the style now called "milonguero" was common in 
center-city milongas, there were many dancers (and almost all those who 
were admired for their dancing) who danced in  styles used in the 
neighborhoods.

>To get a better idea of how social dancers move, maybe we should look  
>at some videos of actual social dancing. Watch what they do instead  
>of what they say. Barbara suggests that as well.
>  
>
Make sure that you watch videos made in the neighborhoods, as well in 
the center,  in the '80s and early '90s to understand what was happening 
pre-1994.  These were not breeding grounds for stage dancing, just good 
dancers in a social situation. Unfortunately such videos are hard to find.

> If the leader's foot gets out in front  
>of his body, then his partner shortens her stride and she gets  
>stepped on (because she is measuring her stride from his body). The  
>real issue is whether the leader's hips (and body) are carried  
>forward over the ball of the foot. This is possible with landing on  
>the balls, but it is a WHOLE lot easier using the heel-ball technique.
>  
>
Of course, the whole point is that the lead starts from the leader's 
body, the foot placement following, whether toe or heel-first.

>>Only confusion results from taking as gospel everything any given
>>teacher says -- how about filtering opinions through common sense and
>>personal experience?.  How about keeping one's eyes and mind open?  We
>>have been going to milongas in Argentina since 1987; a sea change
>>happened in 1994 when Susana Miller began teaching and promoting
>>"milonguero style".  
>>    
>>
>
>My first visit was in 1996. The milonguero style dominated at a few  
>of the clubs,
>
Sic! . . .a few

There used to be a fabulous club called Centro Akarense in Villa 
Urquiza, where all the best dancers went, the milongueros from the 
center, the best neighborhood dancers, singles and couples, and the 
aspiring professionals. Almost all of those who were already considered 
professionals (Copes, the Dinzels, etc) were never seen at any milongas 
except in a ceremonial context.The Friday night milonga at Akarense  
closed in about 1993, and it has never been equaled, IMHO.I danced with 
a number of men who I later discovered were considered "milongueros". I 
remember the first time one of them, who I had danced with many times 
before, over a number of years,  used "milonguero" style. Several of the 
women we were sitting with (Fino's widow among them) commented 
disparagingly on the "new" style. 
You confirm my point :

>The milonguero style dominated at a few  
>of the clubs, and the dancers in these clubs, masters of the  
>"milonguero style" were older gentlemen, who were certainly not  
>trained by Susana Miller. 
>
Of course she didn't invent the style; she promoted it as the "only" 
social style of tango. It wasn't, and still isn't. Social tango is 
whatever can be done respecting the line of dance, other dancers and the 
music. The huge growth in tango tourism and international promotion has 
resulted in the last ten years in the idea that the "milonguero" style 
is the only social tango. And (exclusively)close embrace styles work 
better in a very crowded situation.

It is true that the salon style of the neighborhoods was the basis of 
stage tango, through the richness of its possibilities. However one 
NEVER saw disruptive exhibition moves such as lifts, big ganchos, high 
boleos, etc. at the milongas. Everyone (except some foreign touriests) 
was entirely clear on the difference. Such moves were used only in 
exhibition or on the stage. And now of course at alternative milongas 
:-) worldwide.
Abrazos,
Barbara













>_______________________________________________
>Tango-L mailing list
>Tango-L at mit.edu
>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>
>
>  
>